D&D 5E Half Elf vs Human

[Afrodyte]

I thought they were a myth, an urban legend invented in the charop forums as a cautionary tale.

Crap! They know!

 

[MoonSong]

So, "unless you're playing 8 out of 12 classes." Well... okay. If you're asserting that half-elf is usually a better choice for players of warlocks, sorcerers, bards, and maybe paladins, I agree.

You seem to be using a different definition of "dump stat" from what I'm used to. To me, a dump stat is something you put at 8, leave at 8, and avoid ever using if you can manage it. I seldom do that with Charisma because I like to be able to use social skills; but that doesn't mean +2 Charisma is going to rock my world, or come close to equaling the value of a feat to me.

I mostly agree, though I have yet another definition for dump stat, for me it is the stat that can never be low enough for you. And by low I'm not talking about slightly lower than average, 8 is not and never has been a low stat, it is way too high. Sometimes you just want to play a very dumb character or a terribly socially inept one, or one who struggles to get doors open for being just that weak, and playing someone in the fourth decile in the distribution won't just cut it, it is just too way close to average.

 

[Afrodyte]

"I heard he took Skill Focus AND Toughness as his 1st level feats....and he liked it! They weren't even requirements for a prestige class!"

*dons black shades and whips out a Neuralizer*

*FLASH!*

This was not an actual gamer. What you saw was swamp gas reflecting off the surface of Venus.

*removes glasses and tucks away Neuralizer*

 

[Dausuul]

But I wanted to add that I am really happy half-elves are getting more love this edition and that some people even think they are the best race. That's great. In so many other editions they were the red-headed stepchild race that some people wanted for flavor reasons, but very few wanted for mechanical reasons. If people like them also for mechanical reasons this edition, that's a good thing.

I absolutely agree. I think the last time there was a decent mechanical reason to play a half-elf was 2E. Both 3E and 4E half-elves... well, let's be blunt, they sucked. The 5E half-elf is not an uber-race, but there are definitely a lot of situations where, from a purely mechanical perspective, it's the way to go. That's awesome.

 

[TwoSix]

I absolutely agree. I think the last time there was a decent mechanical reason to play a half-elf was 2E. Both 3E and 4E half-elves... well, let's be blunt, they sucked. The 5E half-elf is not an uber-race, but there are definitely a lot of situations where, from a purely mechanical perspective, it's the way to go. That's awesome.

Not to be pedantic, but are we talking about the same 4e "Versatile Master" half-elf? I'm pretty sure they were more than viable.

Additionally, half-elves have been one of the best races in Pathfinder for over a year (up until about 2 months ago) because of the half-elf only spell Paragon Surge.

Not saying I'm not happy with 5e half-elves, because I love half-elves and think the 5e version is great, but saying that the 4e and PF versions of Half-Elves sucks requires some fairly large caveats. (3.0 and 3.5, you're absolutely right.)

 

[Dausuul]

Not to be pedantic, but are we talking about the same 4e "Versatile Master" half-elf? I'm pretty sure they were more than viable.

Additionally, half-elves have been one of the best races in Pathfinder for over a year (up until about 2 months ago) because of the half-elf only spell Paragon Surge.

Not saying I'm not happy with 5e half-elves, because I love half-elves and think the 5e version is great, but saying that the 4e and PF versions of Half-Elves sucks requires some fairly large caveats. (3.0 and 3.5, you're absolutely right.)

It's been quite a while since I played 4E, but my recollection was that half-elves looked nice on paper but didn't do much in practice. Most classes' at-will abilities were tailored to those classes and seldom worth pilfering for a different class as an encounter power. I never really looked at the Essentials version, it might be better.

I wasn't thinking of Pathfinder at all; should have specified D&D editions.

 

[TwoSix]

It's been quite a while since I played 4E, but my recollection was that half-elves looked nice on paper but didn't do much in practice. Most classes' at-will abilities were tailored to those classes and seldom worth pilfering for a different class as an encounter power. I never really looked at the Essentials version, it might be better.

I wasn't thinking of Pathfinder at all; should have specified D&D editions.

Half-elves came into their own with PHB2 and the Versatile Master feat, which allowed their Dilettante encounter power to be upgraded to an at-will.

That's fair about Pathfinder, I simply view it as another member of the D&D family tree. It's just published by a different company.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I don't think half-elves are overpowered. They're definitely (and finally!) a strong racial option in this edition. I was concerned they were going to be crap (like in the playtest) and was extremely happy to find out that they don't suck in 5e.

They make great Cha characters. But dwarves make great fighters, halflings make superb rogues, etc. That is (or at least has become since 3.5e) part of their schtick. But just like I could play a non-fighter dwarf or a non-rogue halfling before and actually feel like I wasn't getting hosed on my race-class combo, I can now play a half-elf with a non-Cha class and feel likewise.

If I were looking at raw power, any time I wanted a focused build that didn't rely on Cha, I'd probably pick human over half-elf. That extra (and early) feat is a big deal.

With the balance I'm seeing so far amongst the races, I feel like I can pick whatever race makes the most conceptual sense for my character idea, and not cringe every time I think of how unoptimized the combination is.

 

[zoroaster100]

I keep seeing threads where someone claims that halflings are overpowered, or dwarves are overpowered, or humans are overpowered, or half-elves are overpowered. And I have three players running elves right now in a party of six, plus one running a half-orc who seems plenty powerful. So my conclusion is that there are a number of good races to choose from in this edition and that they seem to have hit a nice balance among several races while yet differentiating them a lot.

I'm still not sold on the gnome's racial features, but maybe I just haven't figured how to make good use of them yet. But that is a topic for another thread, I guess.

 

[Viridian]

Half Elves make ridiculously good Lore Bards. The stat bonuses are just the start of their synergies. An extra language and an extra skill fit right into the skill monkey nature of the subclass. Darkvision is awesome for Lore due to their leather limitation and inherent stealthiness (Jack of All Trades and leather armor means you almost certainly have a high stealth modifier even if you didn't take stealth for some odd reason), allowing you to accompany the Rogue and/or Ranger for scouting in force. Fey ancestry combos well with the Countercharm ability, as well as spells like Calm Emotions and the various other charm dispelling effects... even if the rest of the party is charmed, you probably aren't, and you have the means to undo it on everyone else.

It really is a great synergy. Humans might arguably make better Valor Bards due to the power of feats to effect combat abilities, but I think Half Elves are the kings of Lore.