Half-orc revisions

[Drakron]

My point was never that elves are always strong but they are stronger at certain levels.

Overall humans are the all around best choise, elves (as I pointed out) are better that humans in some situations and worst in others, a elf "soak up damage tank" is usually a poor choise compared to a human or half-elf.

My point is that no race or class is balanced at all levels with each other ... D&D is NOT a MMORPG were there cannot be a best race or a best class at certain levels.

Half-elves and half-orcs are fine, the fact they are not as strong as a human or a elf is not a argument to change the "halfs", if someone pointed out that a 1/4 race is as good as a half-elf it would be a good reason.

Start to give advantages so people will start playing is usually a bad idea because it would lead to the "min-max" mentality were characters are nothing more that stats and numbers and we select a race to gain mechanical advantages for the class we want to play.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Funny. I've never seen a Half-Orc PC in my games...but every game there are at least 3, usually more, Half-Elves. No extra bonus for being one, just that people DO like them...but, as is the case with most things, those who love Half-Elves are not nearly as vocal as those against them.

 

[Technik4]

Lets not forget that half-orcs are getting 1 perk that we already know about, Weapon Familiarity with Orc Double Axe. Not a huge gain, but as other people have pointed out, half-orcs while not strong, are balanced with other races. They may not be balanced to the 6th decimal point, but I'd say all the phb races are the same real integer. IE-


Dwarf 9.95
Halfling 9.9
Human 9.85
Elf 9.75
Half-Orc 9.6
Gnome 9.5
Half-Elf 9.1

While it doesnt take a genius to see that a human or a dwarf is better than a half-orc, its hard to say whether human, halfling, or dwarf is more powerful, and the elf (phb, not subrace) is right behind. This is all IMO, but I have seen many half-orc pcs and by comparison, few gnomes and half-elves.

I personally dont think dwarves need the bump (Weapon Familiarity), and that they were slightly overcompensated for their movement, which given magic items (spring+stride, flight), is easily compensated for.

Needless to say, if you want to, you can make a good character from any of the races, they are all ballpark 9.

Technik

PS- Drakron: Humans other advantage is 23 extra skill points by level 20. And despite a couple prcs, an extra feat is far more useful for entrance than elven blood.

 

[TroyXavier]

Half Orcs are fine, maybe a small bonus(like the Wilderness Lore/Survival suggestion) and they'd be great.

Half Elves(shakes head) have no purpose unless you want to play an outcast. They're truly a roleplayer's pick. Otherwise take Elves' abilities or Human's versatility.

 

[Crothian]

Half Orcs are fine, maybe a small bonus(like the Wilderness Lore/Survival suggestion) and they'd be great.

Half Elves(shakes head) have no purpose unless you want to play an outcast. They're truly a roleplayer's pick. Otherwise take Elves' abilities or Human's versatility.

So, why are half elves outcasts but half orcs are not?

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

So, why are half elves outcasts but half orcs are not?

IMC, Half-Orcs are even MORE outcasts than Half-Elves...Orcs are just looked down on everywhere, and Half-Orcs end up getting the brunt of it. Half-Elves, while not too common, are treated "normally" when compared to the other races.
And, to the person that mentioned Half-Elves being only for RP purposes, your problem is? This is an RPG...some of us do like to RP.

 

[Dinkeldog]

In terms of the basic PhB races, I would take a dwarf or gnome wizard over an elf one any day of the week. Con is much more valuable than Dex, especially to arcane casters. Dex is helpful some of the time, Con is usefull ALL of the time.

Even more so because the Con bonus scales with levels whereas the Dex bonus is static.

 

[haiiro]

The more I look at the PHB races, the screwier things get. I'd never really considered whether or not the half-elf and half-orc are underpowered until recently, but in some respects they certainly seem to be. I'm content to address that in the House Rules forum by modifying those races.

After reading through this thread, though, I started looking at the races that most folks consider to be balanced -- and halflings really stand out as an oddity.

They get a stat shift that should be self-balancing, and small size to balance low base speed; no problems there. But their little laundry list of abilities includes what boils down to at least 4 feats: two +2/+2 skill feats (for Climb, Jump, Move Silently and Listen), Luck of Heroes (the +1 to all saves), and a limited Weapon Focus (thrown weapons) coupled with a save boost vs. fear (which I think combined are worth at least one feat).

How can be this balanced by comparison to the half-orc's two special abilities -- and arguable penalty from their +2/-4 stat shifts -- or the half-elf's short list of special abilities?

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Dwarf 9.95
Halfling 9.9
Human 9.85
Elf 9.75
Half-Orc 9.6
Gnome 9.5
Half-Elf 9.1

What the heck do these numbers mean, and how do you come up with them?

 

[Ukyo the undead]

What I would make if I were an WotC game designer...

Half- orcs:

Give to them a skill bonus(+2) to wilderness lore and listen.

OR

Take out the -2 bonus to int.


Half elves:

Give them a+1 skill bonus or an extra feat(player's choice).


Im not sure if the half orc change would be the best, but im very certain about the half elf.