"Half-" races
- Thread starter Driddle
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Selvarin
Explorer
1) "Halfsies" are a good way to play something in-between. Yes, the broad characterizations about their history (especially half-elves) suck, but that can be ignored.
2) Nothing wrong with them. If they're in the PHB, don't use 'em. Unless the section on half-elves and half-orcs take up more than 1/2 of the book I don't see a problem there.
3) If one's playing a halfsy there's nothing wrong with giving them shades of each (for which templates are wonderful). Why not have something in the mechanics of the character that shows where they came from?
4) One could have "quartsies" but for simplicity's sake it's easier to have a half/half or a half/qtr/qtr. In the latter case let the part that is greatest decide what stats they get (darkvision, bonuses/minuses, etc.). You can already have one like that, just not mechanically.
2) Nothing wrong with them. If they're in the PHB, don't use 'em. Unless the section on half-elves and half-orcs take up more than 1/2 of the book I don't see a problem there.
3) If one's playing a halfsy there's nothing wrong with giving them shades of each (for which templates are wonderful). Why not have something in the mechanics of the character that shows where they came from?
4) One could have "quartsies" but for simplicity's sake it's easier to have a half/half or a half/qtr/qtr. In the latter case let the part that is greatest decide what stats they get (darkvision, bonuses/minuses, etc.). You can already have one like that, just not mechanically.
Darth Shoju
First Post
Sadrik said:
That's pretty much the way I see it too.
The Grackle
First Post
I'd like to see half orcs replaced w/ orcs.
RPG_Tweaker
Explorer
I've never been a big fan of the "half" races. The Tolkienian antecedents, half-elves and half-orcs, were tolerable, but the ever-growing half-X races have become positively ludicrous.
"Gee, Mike got to play a half-vampire, so what's wrong with my half-gelatinous cube?"
I know it's just fantasy, but really... shouldn't there be a distinction between race and species? Or, in the case of the half-vampire, the fact that... they're DEAD!
Mythologically, most of the wierd chimera types were the offspring of gods and demi-gods. So I understand the occasional offspring of outsiders, but why does every mortal with a xeno-fetish seem to be able to produce a viable half-spawn? Or worse yet, a whole population of them?
Even with Shapechange you don't actually become the target creature, just a really good simulacrum. It seems a bit silly that just because some guy takes the form of an otyugh, their seed... or whatever they reproduce with is compatible with the real thing.
Unfortunately, it seems to me that until WotC decides to tackle the highly combustible issue of race, species, and cross-breeding (that aint gonna happen) the proliferation of the half-Xs will continue to grow unabated.
I have some half-breeds in my campaign, but most are mules. The few viable ones are directly due to divinie intervention. Halflings are the offspring of a rougish elf demi-god with a prodigious taste for human females. Goblinoids were the spawn of a sinister god and always produce goblinoid offspring; the subtypes are based on their own race, and the counterpart's species.
Beastmen were born from the union of Chaos and Nature. Many are stable (fauns, centaurs, gnolls, minotaurs, ratlings, and lycan), while satyr tend to be a chaotic grab-bag of bestial features.
"Gee, Mike got to play a half-vampire, so what's wrong with my half-gelatinous cube?"
I know it's just fantasy, but really... shouldn't there be a distinction between race and species? Or, in the case of the half-vampire, the fact that... they're DEAD!
Mythologically, most of the wierd chimera types were the offspring of gods and demi-gods. So I understand the occasional offspring of outsiders, but why does every mortal with a xeno-fetish seem to be able to produce a viable half-spawn? Or worse yet, a whole population of them?
Even with Shapechange you don't actually become the target creature, just a really good simulacrum. It seems a bit silly that just because some guy takes the form of an otyugh, their seed... or whatever they reproduce with is compatible with the real thing.
Unfortunately, it seems to me that until WotC decides to tackle the highly combustible issue of race, species, and cross-breeding (that aint gonna happen) the proliferation of the half-Xs will continue to grow unabated.
I have some half-breeds in my campaign, but most are mules. The few viable ones are directly due to divinie intervention. Halflings are the offspring of a rougish elf demi-god with a prodigious taste for human females. Goblinoids were the spawn of a sinister god and always produce goblinoid offspring; the subtypes are based on their own race, and the counterpart's species.
Beastmen were born from the union of Chaos and Nature. Many are stable (fauns, centaurs, gnolls, minotaurs, ratlings, and lycan), while satyr tend to be a chaotic grab-bag of bestial features.
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IMHO, I would like to see the PHB contain what 4E considers to be the core fantasy world race EXAMPLES, whatever they may be (e.g human, elf, etc.).
However, I would like these to be ONLY examples. Examples that augment a fairly detailed "How to Create a Balanced 4E Race" section. Since they are saying that Math is being used as a strong basis for equality and balance in 4E, I am assuming races will each be built on a common formula. We should be given the formula and the tools to create races as we see fit, for our individual tastes and for the unique qualities that fit independent game worlds. One person's idea of an elf may be Tolkeinesque while another may be Morlockian and another Martinesque. We should have the easy tools at our disposal to create these variations.
This would in addition, solve the issues regarding half-breeds. The PHB should not be the deciding factor on whether half-breeds exist or not, or what kinds of half-breeds exist. This should be dictated by the individual game world and the DM's and their player's personal tastes.
JMHO. YMMV.
However, I would like these to be ONLY examples. Examples that augment a fairly detailed "How to Create a Balanced 4E Race" section. Since they are saying that Math is being used as a strong basis for equality and balance in 4E, I am assuming races will each be built on a common formula. We should be given the formula and the tools to create races as we see fit, for our individual tastes and for the unique qualities that fit independent game worlds. One person's idea of an elf may be Tolkeinesque while another may be Morlockian and another Martinesque. We should have the easy tools at our disposal to create these variations.
This would in addition, solve the issues regarding half-breeds. The PHB should not be the deciding factor on whether half-breeds exist or not, or what kinds of half-breeds exist. This should be dictated by the individual game world and the DM's and their player's personal tastes.
JMHO. YMMV.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Why does it always have to be "half"? If a half-elf breeds with an elf you get a 3/4 elf...mostly elf but with some human elements. If the same half-elf then breeds with a human, you get an almost-human offspring with a still recognizable elven taint. It is very possible to stat out down to 1/8 divisions; any more granular than that and you're just defaulting to the nearest eighth anyway.
If a half-elf breeds with a half-orc (no reason why not) you have a genetic mess but it should still fairly easily be stattable-outable. Easier than most, in fact, as some of the orc traits and some of the elf traits will in effect cancel each other out.
What needs to be done on some sort of quasi-official level is a great big chart showing what can in theory breed with what (I did a homebrew one many years ago), leaving it to individual DMs to stat out - and allow or disallow as PCs - any offspring that may follow.
Lanefan
If a half-elf breeds with a half-orc (no reason why not) you have a genetic mess but it should still fairly easily be stattable-outable. Easier than most, in fact, as some of the orc traits and some of the elf traits will in effect cancel each other out.
What needs to be done on some sort of quasi-official level is a great big chart showing what can in theory breed with what (I did a homebrew one many years ago), leaving it to individual DMs to stat out - and allow or disallow as PCs - any offspring that may follow.
Lanefan
I used to like half races, but the growing number of them just soured me. Based on my readings of mythology and genre fiction, those with mixed racial/species heritages resulted from powerful, usually divine, magical influences, not mere biology in action. So, from now on, there simply won't be any more Half-races in my campaigns.
That doesn't mean that there aren't ways to mix things up a bit.
I'm using concepts & mechanics combining elements of Bloodlines, PrCls and templates.
While no PC will truly be a "Half" anything, they may have a trace of some unusual, unearthly blood in the family ancestry. This will have effects on the character's innate abilities- for instance, you might not be able to be a spontaneous caster without some kind of lineage from beyond.
Mechanically, it will be like a 3.X PrCl or AU/AE racial class level- you take levels in the racial or, in this case, bloodline class and get the level related benefits. Unlike race levels from Savage Species, you need not take any levels beyond the first. Like a PrCl, there are no penalties for taking racial class or bloodline levels. The more levels in the class you take, the more power you get from your ancestry- evidence of the strength of the blood on your mysterious family history. Bloodline classes range from 2 to 6 levels.
Assuming that these are standard D&D half-human half-elves & half-orcs, a simple application of the Punnet square shows we'd expect to get 1 Human, 1 Half-orc, 1 Half-elf and one Erc/Olf? out of 4 offspring.
That doesn't mean that there aren't ways to mix things up a bit.
I'm using concepts & mechanics combining elements of Bloodlines, PrCls and templates.
While no PC will truly be a "Half" anything, they may have a trace of some unusual, unearthly blood in the family ancestry. This will have effects on the character's innate abilities- for instance, you might not be able to be a spontaneous caster without some kind of lineage from beyond.
Mechanically, it will be like a 3.X PrCl or AU/AE racial class level- you take levels in the racial or, in this case, bloodline class and get the level related benefits. Unlike race levels from Savage Species, you need not take any levels beyond the first. Like a PrCl, there are no penalties for taking racial class or bloodline levels. The more levels in the class you take, the more power you get from your ancestry- evidence of the strength of the blood on your mysterious family history. Bloodline classes range from 2 to 6 levels.
Assuming that these are standard D&D half-human half-elves & half-orcs, a simple application of the Punnet square shows we'd expect to get 1 Human, 1 Half-orc, 1 Half-elf and one Erc/Olf? out of 4 offspring.
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