D&D 5E Halfling rogue sniping from the the second rank

[TDarien]

You can always attack from a hidden position with advantage if are allowed to make that attack normally. However, you cannot make attacks from behind total cover and if you give up your total cover to attack then you are no longer hidden (assuming there is nothing else besides the cover that keeps you unseen).

Moving out is all you need to break hiding. The approach statement was just an example and not a requirement to break hiding.

Well said. I will add however, that under most circumstances, the DM should allow a hidden creature moving out of total cover to attack to retain benefits of being hidden (advantage on the attack). However, that is 100% the DM's call.

 

[Mistwell]

[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION]'s question and Mearls' reply:

View attachment 63316

Don't mean to steal your thunder, Mistwell. Just helping people get their answers.

Thaumaturge.

Not stealing my thunder...thanks for the screenshot. I always have trouble doing those.

So the answer is yes you can immediately hide again in the same spot from the same foe, but your DM may want to make your subsequent hide checks be at disadvantage since the circumstances dictate it would be more difficult to do it while being observed by the guy you just shot and are planning to shoot again.

OK, makes sense to me!

 

[Ranes]

That's why this is a special racial ability afforded only to some halflings, not a thing that just any short person can do. If you're not one of those halflings and don't understand how it's done, it's basically magic.

I understand that intent. I just think it's a little too contrived. That contrivance has given rise to this whole debate, after all. And MM's reference to 'common sense' hasn't helped either. A clearer yes or no would have drawn a line. His equivocation will, I suspect, fuel several more pages of argument.

As I said, it's not such a big deal for me that I'd prevent a player from exploiting it, but I remain unconvinced that it was such a good idea in the first place.

 

[Sir Brennen]

So, regarding the Mike Mearls response, having subsequent Hide roles be made with Disadvantage (or target make Perception with Advantage) seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise. One solution I thought of myself but didn't manage to post, many tangents ago

It does imply knowledge of where the hiding character was last seen CAN have an impact, and makes it more difficult to hide.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Not stealing my thunder...thanks for the screenshot. I always have trouble doing those.

I use Skitch, which is an Evernote-owned and compatible app. I use it on OSX and iOS, but there are Android and Windows versions also. It makes screenshots and basic annotations (like arrows) pretty easy. If you use Evernote, it's almost a must have. It's also free.

And... um... halflings and stuff.

Thaumaturge.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The problem I have with the ability as written is that it turns every enemy into dull as dishwater keystone cops.

"Oooh that little bugger has popped out of that elf wizard's butt and shot me five times!! No way he's gonna catch me not looking again"........THWUK!! " Damnit!!!"

The acid test for me is this: would players be ok if a monster had the same ability? If a monster got to roll to hide from their passive perception in the same spot round after round and pepper them with bonus damage even though they knew exactly where the monster was, would players be alright with it? Would they feel cheesed off that their characters some of whom might have a super high INT & WIS, keep falling for peekaboo round after round?

If they are fine with that, then I say roll with it and let the ridiculous happen.

I remember some folks went ballistic over the hobgoblin getting martial advantage, yet had no problem with the rogue getting sneak damage under the exact same circumstances.

Always give a monster an even break. Learn it. Love it. Live it.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Moving out is all you need to break hiding. The approach statement was just an example and not a requirement to break hiding.

I expect some people coming from 4E to get confuse by this as in 4E you retain the benefit of being hidden until after you complete your action that cause you to not be hidden anymore.

So a common tactic in 4E is to use an attack power with a built-in movement, such as Deft Strike when coming out of cover or concealment and attack all in the same action and retain the benefit of being hidden (combat advantage)

 

[transtemporal]

D'oh, this thread got away on me pretty fast.

I thought of a way an enemy could potentially defeat the pop-out-fire-hide tactic.

As long as the enemy acts after the halfling, just move to a position where the ally no longer gives the halfling cover.

Since hide is predicated on being partially obscured by something, if the enemy moves to a position where the halfling no longer gains the cover benefit from the ally, I would argue the halfling is no longer obscured/concealed either and therefore no longer meet the requirements for hide.

Does that sound fair? I don't want to nerf a legit ability but I also want my intelligent monsters to act intelligently too by trying to get a bead on this super-slippery-halfling.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Not stealing my thunder...thanks for the screenshot. I always have trouble doing those.

So the answer is yes you can immediately hide again in the same spot from the same foe, but your DM may want to make your subsequent hide checks be at disadvantage since the circumstances dictate it would be more difficult to do it while being observed by the guy you just shot and are planning to shoot again.

OK, makes sense to me!

Hmm the more I see on this, the more im thinking I will simply substitute adv on stealth checks for the lightfoot hide behind ally ability. Still awesome, no silliness. Or even better hopefully none of my players pick lightfoot halfer.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Hmm the more I see on this, the more im thinking I will simply substitute adv on stealth checks for the lightfoot hide behind ally ability. Still awesome, no silliness. Or even better hopefully none of my players pick lightfoot halfer.

Advantage on all Stealth checks? I think you just increased the likelihood your players pick Lightfoot, because that's going to be way more useful than trying to hide behind an ally. Hide behind an ally can fail just from a good Perception check OR sound tactics by an intelligent monster. And per the official source upthread, you could reasonably give the halfling disadvantage on repeated attempts against the same target.

I also noticed that Elves went from having Advantage on Perception checks in the last public playtest to merely being proficient in the Basic rules. That suggests to me the designers thought (or got feedback to the effect) that giving Advantage to a commonly used skill might be a bit much. So if you're going to change the ability, maybe just make it a free proficiency with Stealth for Lightfoot halfings in your game.

I know your main reason for wanting to change the ability is just a flavor thing, but if a player picks the race, obviously they don't think it's silly and want to play the ability as is. Why not just let the player have fun if the ability isn't overpowered?