Hammer Rhythm and Terrifying Impact

NMcCoy · Mar 21, 2009

If I miss with the secondary attack of Terrifying Impact and have the Hammer Rhythm feat, do I damage the targets that I don't push? It seems silly, but by the rules it looks to be the case... Terrifying indeed. Shame it doesn't work on minions.

turk128 · Mar 21, 2009

Terrifying Impact's secondary attack seems to be a fear attack, not a weapon attack so Hammer Rhythm does not kick in.

NMcCoy · Mar 21, 2009

I'm pretty sure that all attacks with a Weapon power are weapon attacks, and thus it's a weapon attack with the fear keyword added. (If it's not, then you don't get proficiency or enhancement on it, something that ought to be more clear as that's easily a five-point difference at that level.) And if it loses the Weapon keyword by being given the Fear keyword, wouldn't it also lose the Invigorating and Martial keywords? (Which would mean that if you miss with the primary but hit with the secondary attack, you don't get temp HP.)

turk128 · Mar 24, 2009

Reading it more and talking to others... it's definitely the second case. Comes down to this specific line: Make a secondary attack, which has the fear keyword. Basically, it becomes a fear attack only (having a burst 3 range is pretty much a dead give away). It's a straight Con attack.

If it was the 1st case and you basically get Invigorating, Martial, Weapon & Fear... damn, that'll definitely be broken. 1st off, Hammer Rythm will be insane. 2nd, you're almost (99%) guaranteed to hit getting THP. 3rd, there's a possibility that it will stack if you hit multiple targets with the secondary attack.

Saeviomagy · Mar 24, 2009

turk128 said:
Reading it more and talking to others... it's definitely the second case. Comes down to this specific line: Make a secondary attack, which has the fear keyword. Basically, it becomes a fear attack only (having a burst 3 range is pretty much a dead give away). It's a straight Con attack.

If it was the 1st case and you basically get Invigorating, Martial, Weapon & Fear... damn, that'll definitely be broken. 1st off, Hammer Rythm will be insane. 2nd, you're almost (99%) guaranteed to hit getting THP. 3rd, there's a possibility that it will stack if you hit multiple targets with the secondary attack.

Don't brokenragers stack invigorating hps anyway?

DracoSuave · Mar 24, 2009

1: Multiple attacks with the same power with the Invigorating Keyword -never- stack. No invigorating power grants temporary hit points more than once per round, even if you hit more than once with that power. (PHB II, p 220) Battlerager doesn't let you stack hit points that you -never recieve-.

2: The secondary attack has all the keywords of the primary power, as well as the fear keyword. So long as you hit with -any- of the attacks with it, you get invigorating hps.

3: RAW, Hammer Rhythm does apply its damage to the enemies that you miss with the fear aspect of the power. And yes, that's wtf. But that's more because the wording of Hammer Rhythm doesn't care if you'd normally deal damage on a hit.

NMcCoy · Mar 25, 2009

DracoSuave said:
3: RAW, Hammer Rhythm does apply its damage to the enemies that you miss with the fear aspect of the power. And yes, that's wtf. But that's more because the wording of Hammer Rhythm doesn't care if you'd normally deal damage on a hit.

It makes a bit more sense with the character I have it on - he's also got Draconic Arrogance, so he damages on a hit as well.
Also note that enemies immune to fear don't take the miss damage; as such, I envision it as the enemies choosing to stand their ground but having their resolve shaken. Abstract HP is a wonderful thing.

Mephistopheles · Apr 23, 2009

I think the intent of the power seems to be that the secondary attack only has the fear keyword and no other keywords. They should probably clarify it; I don't see any mention of it in the updates for Martial Power currently on the WotC site.

Otherwise another interesting potential combination is Terrifying Impact with Spear Push and Polearm Momentum wielding a spear or polearm: all of the secondary targets within 3 squares of the primary target that are hit are pushed 2 squares instead of 1 (Spear Push) and then knocked prone (Polearm Momentum).

It would be a lot of fun to unleash that kind of chaos but I doubt that's what is intended.

keterys · Apr 23, 2009

I don't have access to the attack in question at the moment, but it sounds like it's a close burst 3 secondary attack? I ask cause Hammer Rhythm only works on melee attacks, which close attacks are not...