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Harassment At PaizoCon 2017

In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.

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In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.


Stories of harassment within tabletop gaming, at conventions and stores, and even in local gaming groups are nothing new. That is probably the saddest fact of this whole thing: that despite stories being brought to light, not only does harassment continue to happen but the existence of it continues to be denied by some. This denial is one of the factors that allows abuse and harassment to continue within tabletop RPGs.

Allegations of improper behavior at the 2017 PaizoCon by Frog God Games CEO Bill Webb were brought to life by Pathfinder content creator Robert Brookes. Brookes was attending PaizoCon and has written for Paizo and Legendary Games, among others. In an incident involving alcohol, Webb allegedly sexually harassed another guest at the convention and when a staffer attempted to intervene and injury occurred with the staffer.

In a thread about harassment and abuse on gaming forum RPGNet, Frog God Games partner Matt Finch, creator of the Swords & Wizardry retroclone, confirmed that the incident with Webb occurred, and revealed some details about an internal investigation that the partners of Frog God Games conducted into the incident:

"I am Matt Finch, the partner of Frog God Games appointed by the partners to investigate a sexual harassment complaint filed against Mr. Webb at PaizoCon 2017. Mr. Webb was not consulted by the partners on this decision. Due to recent accusations made on Twitter by a third party, I will outline the aspects of the situation to the extent that they do not compromise the confidentiality of the person who filed the report, I will describe the nature of our internal investigation, and will also address the recently-raised tweets by Robert Brookes on his twitter feed. This report will not necessarily be updated; it stands for itself at the time of posting, based on the knowledge I currently have.

"First, it is correct that a complaint was filed with Paizo at PaizoCon against Bill. I was made aware of this by phone on the day it happened (I was not present at the convention). Frog God is aware of the identity of the person who made the complaint, because they spoke to three of our partners at the convention after the event. We have not been invited to share that person’s identity, and although we are not under legal obligation to protect that confidentiality we have elected to respect that person’s desire not to have the event brought into the spotlight.

"Gathering information in a situation like this is necessarily limited due to Paizo’s own confidentiality obligations. To assemble information, I spoke to the three partners who had talked with the person who filed the complaint, and obtained their accounts of what they were told. Secondhand accounts are not perfect, and I had to weigh that against the fact that an attorney making direct contact with someone who has filed such a report can be seen as a threat or intimidation, and weighing those two issues, I chose to rely on a comparison of the conversations between the individual and our partners, plus Paizo’s own resolution of the matter at the time, plus a necessarily-cautious review of Bill’s account. There has been contact between the person who filed the complaint and Frog God partners since the event, and I will provide a screenshot of one such communication with the name redacted. I believe the screenshot provides a great deal of clarification.

"Reducing the event to a level that will maintain confidentiality, my understanding based on my investigation was that Bill Webb took an action and engaged in speech that could be construed as a sexual advance or as gender-dismissive.

"In consequence of this finding, I and another senior partner of the company had a meeting with Mr. Webb about expectations, standards of behavior, and future protocol. We addressed that one’s lack of bad intentions does not excuse problematic behavior.

"Some people have asked that Mr. Webb acknowledge and apologize for the situation. Bill does deeply regret his actions, and understands that they were inappropriate and upsetting. I have told Mr. Webb not to contact the person directly, for the same reason that I have not done so myself: the potential for that contact to appear intimidating or threatening. However, at whatever time the person lets us know that a direct apology from Mr. Webb would be welcomed, that apology will be immediately forthcoming. Mr. Webb is also under instruction not to discuss this matter in public, in case peripheral details were to be inadvertently disclosed that might allow the identification of the person by another party. This is also the reason we chose to have me, as the investigating partner, write the public report, given that a report has become necessary in response to a recent description of the event on Twitter."


We reached out to Webb for comment upon this incident, and we were directed to the RPGNet post by Finch. This is the company's official statement on what happened at PaizoCon. Whether or not there will be further repercussions within Frog God Games due to this incident and Webb's actions remain to be seen.

Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens has released an official statement on the incident on the Paizo forums. When EN World reached out to Paizo for official comment, we were directed to this statement:

"My name is Lisa Stevens and I am the CEO and owner of Paizo Inc. Events of the past few weeks have compelled me to make this statement.

"My company will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our employees, male or female. We will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our customers on paizo.com or at sanctioned organized play activities. Whenever I hear any allegations of sexual harassment or assault related to Paizo’s activities, I always immediately drop whatever I'm doing and I make getting to the bottom of these issues my top priority. We have banned people from paizo.com. We have banned people from participating in our organized play activities. We have stopped doing business with individuals. And we will continue to do so.
"As a woman and a survivor of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape, I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of these attacks. I know what it is like to feel the shame, the terror, how it changes your life forever. And because of this, I will never stand for my company to condone this behavior.

"Paizo’s employees are encouraged to come forward with any allegations of sexual harassment or assault and let a manager know as soon as possible. If criminal activities have taken place, they are encouraged to report it to the police and take legal action against the perpetrator. We have asked our employees to not engage in explosive and angry dialogue on paizo.com. We want our website to be a place where our customers feel safe and among friends. If there is problem on paizo.com, then our community team will handle it and, where appropriate, ban the perpetrator.

"In closing, you have my word that I have zero tolerance for sexual harassment and assault, and the same is true of Paizo. Please be aware that we treat these issues with tremendous sensitivity, and only disclose the specifics and resolutions of any such incidents on a need-to-know basis, even within Paizo or with our legal counsel. We do not and will not discuss these matters publicly. Every instance that I am aware of has been thoroughly investigated, and appropriate actions have been taken or are in the process of being taken. You have my word on this."


Unrelated to the PaizoCon incident, Brookes also revealed an incident of harassment within the Pathfinder Society organized play program. When a volunteer staffer reported this incident, their supervisor informed them that an NDA they had signed to be part of the program would not allow her to discuss this incident. Paizo has not officially commented on this incident or commented on whether or not there is an investigation into it.

If tabletop role-playing games are truly going to be an inclusive, we have to be better about not just reporting incidents of abuse and harassment but being dedicated to creating spaces that are safe and free of harassment of our fellow gamers. We also need to shine a spotlight onto the incidents of harassment that occur, it is the responsibility of journalists, bloggers and gamers to do this and let people know that their actions will come to light and that they will be held responsible. It is also important to not just talk about those parts of the gaming communities that we don't agree with, but to also bring to light the improper actions of those companies and communities with whom we do agree, because unless every act of harassment is revealed there will be no change within our communities.

Remember that EN World is an inclusive community.
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Atlictoatl

Villager
What happened is nasty. No discussion about that.

The issue imho is not what happened, the issue is that it's not our job to 'convict' this person in the media (either of them). That's the police's job, that's why it's important for victims to go to the police. In this case the victim has stated VERY CLEARLY that she's not interested in doing that, and that is absolutely her choice. She views the case closed, maybe we should act as humans for once, respect that choice, and let the matter rest.

I'm a suspicious person, I always consider the worst in people, they could be the worst people. But always acting that way is not only unhealthy, but downright unhelpful. In this case it doesn't matter, the case is closed by the only person that has any say in the matter.
A pattern of drunken, abusive behavior in public spaces, including other incidences of harassment, is a much larger issue than one victim has a say over, and individuals within the gaming community at large are completely within their rights to a) decide to no longer patronize Bill Webb and to b) tell others in their community about their decision and their reasons for doing so.
 

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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Honestly, unless the guy does something significant enough to actually get him jailed, I’d probably be fine with his continued employment within the industry, but with the proviso that he NEVER gets to represent the company at a con or online unless & until he gets treatment for his alcoholism* AND his inappropriate behavior.

IOW, I’m not going to advocate a permanent blackballing & boycott if he gets treatment and his employers do what THEY can to keep him out of temptation. While effective, they potentially hurt too many innocent parties, and 2 wrongs don’t make a right.


* binge drinking is often associated with alcoholism, and given the reports of his past behavior...
 

Honestly, unless the guy does something significant enough to actually get him jailed, I’d probably be fine with his continued employment within the industry, but with the proviso that he NEVER gets to represent the company at a con or online unless & until he gets treatment for his alcoholism* AND his inappropriate behavior.

IOW, I’m not going to advocate a permanent blackballing & boycott if he gets treatment and his employers do what THEY can to keep him out of temptation. While effective, they potentially hurt too many innocent parties, and 2 wrongs don’t make a right.


* binge drinking is often associated with alcoholism, and given the reports of his past behavior...
Has Bill been stopped from attending Cons representing Frog God Games though. As far as I can tell, nothing has changed in that regard and Bill is still attending Cons on behalf of Frog God Games, but I do not know for certain.

Similarly, I would have thought that the incident would be enough for Paizo to ban Bill from attending future PaizoCons (the emphasis being banning Bill, not Frog God Games), but I haven’t seen any indication that has occurred either.
 


ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
Honestly, unless the guy does something significant enough to actually get him jailed, I’d probably be fine with his continued employment within the industry, but with the proviso that he NEVER gets to represent the company at a con or online unless & until he gets treatment for his alcoholism* AND his inappropriate behavior.

IOW, I’m not going to advocate a permanent blackballing & boycott if he gets treatment and his employers do what THEY can to keep him out of temptation. While effective, they potentially hurt too many innocent parties, and 2 wrongs don’t make a right.


* binge drinking is often associated with alcoholism, and given the reports of his past behavior...

FROG GOD GAMES is Bill Webb's company. THAT'S why I'm not supportting it anymore. If he were a developer or a designer or a favored freelancer or something that's not much better but it''s decidely different. I could wait for them to remove or fire the said offender in that case. But being that he's the owner? Nah. As much as I love FGG material? As much money as I've spent on their stuff over the years including at least 3 of their huge $100+ hardcovers? Nah. HARD PASS on anymore FGG stuff.
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
FROG GOD GAMES is Bill Webb's company. THAT'S why I'm not supportting it anymore. If he were a developer or a designer or a favored freelancer or something that's not much better but it''s decidely different. I could wait for them to remove or fire the said offender in that case. But being that he's the owner? Nah. As much as I love FGG material? As much money as I've spent on their stuff over the years including at least 3 of their huge $100+ hardcovers? Nah. HARD PASS on anymore FGG stuff.

I'm pretty much on board with this. I could see changing that if Webb came clean about the way he views and/or treats women and seeks to make changes about that. However...

Honestly, unless the guy does something significant enough to actually get him jailed, I’d probably be fine with his continued employment within the industry, but with the proviso that he NEVER gets to represent the company at a con or online unless & until he gets treatment for his alcoholism* AND his inappropriate behavior.

IOW, I’m not going to advocate a permanent blackballing & boycott if he gets treatment and his employers do what THEY can to keep him out of temptation. While effective, they potentially hurt too many innocent parties, and 2 wrongs don’t make a right.


* binge drinking is often associated with alcoholism, and given the reports of his past behavior...

He and everyone else can miss me if they want to make it about the drinking. Drunkenness is not and never will be an excuse for harassment or assault (we can call Webb's behavior what it was, which was harassment at minimum, and avoid such unhelpful euphemisms as "inappropriate behavior"). Alcohol doesn't force anyone to behave completely counter to who they are sober; it simply removes the concern for consequences. It doesn't change who you are; it just removes your filters.

So if Bill Webb decides to address and get help for his alcoholism (instead of, you know, sign off on cheeky cartoon jokes about it?) Then good for him, I guess? Goodness knows we could all stand to go through life with fewer demons on our backs. But I wouldn't want anyone, include Webb himself, to fool themselves into thinking that was sufficient in addressing the underlying concerns regarding his harassment at PaizoCon.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I didn’t say it was an excuse. It’s not even a mitigating factor. If guilty (as I think he is), he needs to be punished.

What his alcohol abuse is is a separate but interrelated issues the sexual harassment. One issue is his personal perspective on the human dignity of women (and others). The second issue is abuse of a substance that increases the odds that he will not control himself in a civil manner.

To clarify: he may or may not get treatment to change his attitude towards women, sexuality, etc. BUT alcohol lowers inhibitions and increases the likelihood that one will act out, whether or not he’s sought out help on the first issue.

Now, personally, I know nothing of Mr. Webb, his family or his company beyond this report. I believe that a boycott is perfectly justifiable, but only up to the point I mentioned. If- and only if- he takes steps to apologize fully, seeks treatment for his issues, and (at least up until said treatment is completed) withdraws from public appearances at cons and other non-“mandatory” industry events.

Why? Because he, as a human being, needs to be able to work to provide for himself & his family. Blackballing him for life even after his repentance could be a significant stressor that leads to even worse behavior.
 

MackMcMacky

First Post
I'm pretty much on board with this. I could see changing that if Webb came clean about the way he views and/or treats women and seeks to make changes about that. However...



He and everyone else can miss me if they want to make it about the drinking. Drunkenness is not and never will be an excuse for harassment or assault (we can call Webb's behavior what it was, which was harassment at minimum, and avoid such unhelpful euphemisms as "inappropriate behavior"). Alcohol doesn't force anyone to behave completely counter to who they are sober; it simply removes the concern for consequences. It doesn't change who you are; it just removes your filters.

So if Bill Webb decides to address and get help for his alcoholism (instead of, you know, sign off on cheeky cartoon jokes about it?) Then good for him, I guess? Goodness knows we could all stand to go through life with fewer demons on our backs. But I wouldn't want anyone, include Webb himself, to fool themselves into thinking that was sufficient in addressing the underlying concerns regarding his harassment at PaizoCon.
I disagree with how you think inebriation works. The "real you" isn't the drunk you. It is the "impaired" you. If someone behaves awfully while they are drunk and they prove they are capable of not being drunk in the future that is highly significant in how to address how they should be treated in the future. This is not a justification or an excuse to act poorly or criminally. I'm not really interested in scarlet letters. I'm more interested in restitution and rehabilitation than retribution.
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
I didn’t say it was an excuse. It’s not even a mitigating factor. If guilty (as I think he is), he needs to be punished.

What his alcohol abuse is is a separate but interrelated issues the sexual harassment. One issue is his personal perspective on the human dignity of women (and others). The second issue is abuse of a substance that increases the odds that he will not control himself in a civil manner.

To clarify: he may or may not get treatment to change his attitude towards women, sexuality, etc. BUT alcohol lowers inhibitions and increases the likelihood that one will act out, whether or not he’s sought out help on the first issue.

Now, personally, I know nothing of Mr. Webb, his family or his company beyond this report. I believe that a boycott is perfectly justifiable, but only up to the point I mentioned. If- and only if- he takes steps to apologize fully, seeks treatment for his issues, and (at least up until said treatment is completed) withdraws from public appearances at cons and other non-“mandatory” industry events.

Why? Because he, as a human being, needs to be able to work to provide for himself & his family. Blackballing him for life even after his repentance could be a significant stressor that leads to even worse behavior.

I apologize that I misunderstood, but I have a few key concerns still:

1) Any act of contrition on Webb's part, in order to justify at least me (and really, I can only speak for myself), will need an acknowledgment that at worst alcohol exacerbated his issues in treating women at conventions, not that it created or caused it. Anything else (e.g; "it wasn't me, it was the alcohol", "I shouldn't have been drinking", "anyone who knows the real me blah blah") is a dodge, a lame excuse that distracts from the real issue. Alcohol didn't make him harass a woman, it just made him that much more likely to do so.

2) Should such contrition actually be forthcoming, and we've seen signs of an actual change in attitudes and behaviors, I'd gladly have a change of heart myself.

3) One last note: I'm far more concerned for the lives and livelihoods of the women who have been or who would be targets of Webb or any other known or serial sexual harassers in the industry than I am about the livelihoods of said harassers. It is people like Webb who drive a lot of women out of the industry (see also: the tech industry). And it's their behavior that makes us, as consumers, necessarily have to choose whose livelihoods we want to continue to support. There's no sitting on the fence on this one, either. Continuing to financially support harassers is making a choice.

I disagree with how you think inebriation works. The "real you" isn't the drunk you. It is the "impaired" you. If someone behaves awfully while they are drunk and they prove they are capable of not being drunk in the future that is highly significant in how to address how they should be treated in the future.

You're entitled to any wrong opinion you want. The thing that alcohol impairs is your inhibitions, not your inherent sense of right and wrong. Drunk you is the "real you", simply without concern for the consequences. Anyone who says differently is lying to themselves. And if the only thing stopping a man from harassing a woman is a concern for consequences of those actions, then I have serious concerns about the character of that person. For a more heinous example, see: Brock Turner.

This is not a justification or an excuse to act poorly or criminally. I'm not really interested in scarlet letters. I'm more interested in restitution and rehabilitation than retribution.

This I can agree with. The problem is people are far more likely to avoid addressing key issues, deflect, distract, try to move on, then they are interested in restitution and rehabilitation. Again, I want Bill Webb to make an honest change in his life and the way he treats women, sober or otherwise. But until he does I'm under no obligation to support him, and in fact I kind of have an obligation to insist others do not until such time as he admits to his problem and rehabilitates.
 

MackMcMacky

First Post
I apologize that I misunderstood, but I have a few key concerns still:

1) Any act of contrition on Webb's part, in order to justify at least me (and really, I can only speak for myself), will need an acknowledgment that at worst alcohol exacerbated his issues in treating women at conventions, not that it created or caused it. Anything else (e.g; "it wasn't me, it was the alcohol", "I shouldn't have been drinking", "anyone who knows the real me blah blah") is a dodge, a lame excuse that distracts from the real issue. Alcohol didn't make him harass a woman, it just made him that much more likely to do so.

2) Should such contrition actually be forthcoming, and we've seen signs of an actual change in attitudes and behaviors, I'd gladly have a change of heart myself.

3) One last note: I'm far more concerned for the lives and livelihoods of the women who have been or who would be targets of Webb or any other known or serial sexual harassers in the industry than I am about the livelihoods of said harassers. It is people like Webb who drive a lot of women out of the industry (see also: the tech industry). And it's their behavior that makes us, as consumers, necessarily have to choose whose livelihoods we want to continue to support. There's no sitting on the fence on this one, either. Continuing to financially support harassers is making a choice.



You're entitled to any wrong opinion you want. The thing that alcohol impairs is your inhibitions, not your inherent sense of right and wrong. Drunk you is the "real you", simply without concern for the consequences. Anyone who says differently is lying to themselves. And if the only thing stopping a man from harassing a woman is a concern for consequences of those actions, then I have serious concerns about the character of that person. For a more heinous example, see: Brock Turner.



This I can agree with. The problem is people are far more likely to avoid addressing key issues, deflect, distract, try to move on, then they are interested in restitution and rehabilitation. Again, I want Bill Webb to make an honest change in his life and the way he treats women, sober or otherwise. But until he does I'm under no obligation to support him, and in fact I kind of have an obligation to insist others do not until such time as he admits to his problem and rehabilitates.
How do you know he hasn't made an honest change in his life and the way he treats women? I don't know the guy. This went down in May right? So he's had months to seek counseling, make life changes, etc. How do you know?

P.S. If the drunk "you" is the real "you" then we are all rather primitive. I suppose it's an argument for the inherent depravity of all humanity. However, no real insight would thus be established about the unique deficiencies of any one person.
 
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