Harassment in gaming

[Rottle]

I work for a co-op with 48 owners ( some of the owners are LLCs, some partnerships, some even corporations) all privately owned. The biggest difference between most usually has to do with taxes and liability.

 

[Springheel]

I find it absolutely baffling to be honest to think that anyone would think that not making your product more appealing to more people is a good idea. It's just good business. Is anyone going to stop buying D&D books because they have less chainmail bikinis it them? Maybe. But, I'm pretty willing to bet that the primary motivation for buying a PHB isn't to look at pinup art. That might be a reason, but, hardly the main one.

There's nothing inherently wrong with companies making their products appeal to lots of people, but there's also nothing wrong with companies wanting to target niche audiences or specific tastes. If someone wants to produce or play a swords and sorcery game with chain-mail bikinis and loin-cloth-wearing barbarians, they shouldn't be attacked for not being "inclusive", any more than a sci-fi game should be attacked for not catering to fantasy fans.

 

[MechaPilot]

There's nothing inherently wrong with companies making their products appeal to lots of people, but there's also nothing wrong with companies wanting to target niche audiences or specific tastes.

Agreed.

If someone wants to produce or play a swords and sorcery game with chain-mail bikinis and loin-cloth-wearing barbarians, they shouldn't be attacked for not being "inclusive", any more than a sci-fi game should be attacked for not catering to fantasy fans.

It depends on what you mean by attacked. People do have the right to voice their disagreement with whatever they want to, and to advocate for changes that they want to see. This should generally not be done by making personal attacks. And if that's what you mean, then I agree. However, if you mean that the creators/players shouldn't have to accept that there will be some who vociferously object to the lack of inclusiveness, then I disagree.

 

[Balesir]

There are also, in the UK at least, LLPs - Limited Liability Partnerships. Whether there is an analogous thing in the US I have no idea, off the top of my head.

 

[delericho]

The use of different pronouns, like the art included in the books, is a matter of presentation: they are not the game itself.

You specifically called out the mention of trans characters in 5e, which is also likewise 'just' a matter of presentation - as a game 5e would be no different if that was omitted. So how are the pronouns any different?

 

[Umbran]

There's nothing inherently wrong with companies making their products appeal to lots of people, but there's also nothing wrong with companies wanting to target niche audiences or specific tastes.

True. And if for most of gaming history the pinup-art were a niche thing, I don't think anyone would really complain about an occasional game using such. But that's not really been the case, now has it?

There is something wrong when the industry as a whole fails to notice that they're being sexist in their artwork. Once that has been corrected for a while, I think you'll find the complaints will die down. The more appropriate standard needs to be firmly established before the old style won't raise eyebrows.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

It is with a heavy heart I post this link.

http://latining.tumblr.com/post/141567276944/tabletop-gaming-has-a-white-male-terrorism-problem

I don't think that the gaming community is somehow immune to the ills of society at large. I don't have any real solution (except doing my part not to be part of the problem) but I think it's something we have to talk about.

There's a lot of really repulsive behavior described in that post. I feel bad for whomever it happened to.

 

[Hussar]

There's nothing inherently wrong with companies making their products appeal to lots of people, but there's also nothing wrong with companies wanting to target niche audiences or specific tastes. If someone wants to produce or play a swords and sorcery game with chain-mail bikinis and loin-cloth-wearing barbarians, they shouldn't be attacked for not being "inclusive", any more than a sci-fi game should be attacked for not catering to fantasy fans.

Sure. But, we're not talking about a niche RPG here. We're talking about D&D - which, for most intents and purposes, IS the hobby. If WOTC were to produce another game, ie not D&D, and go the S&S chainmail bikinis route, then fine and dandy. But, to expect that from the flagship RPG product isn't very realistic.

And, let's be frank here, FATAL has the reputation that it has for good reason. Granted, that's extreme, but, it would be economical suicide for WotC to go down that route. The game is tasteless, and very offensive. Shouldn't we as gamers, be able to step up and say, "Sorry, no, we don't want that in our game stores?"

Being misogynistic, bigoted or outright racist is most certainly not the same as choosing to make a game in one genre or another.

Honestly, having read these threads for the past few days, the level of false equivalency that gets put out there is kinda frightening. If you truly believe that there is no difference between publishing a Fantasy RPG and F.A.T.A.L., then I think there might be some room for self reflection.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

There's nothing inherently wrong with companies making their products appeal to lots of people, but there's also nothing wrong with companies wanting to target niche audiences or specific tastes. If someone wants to produce or play a swords and sorcery game with chain-mail bikinis and loin-cloth-wearing barbarians, they shouldn't be attacked for not being "inclusive", any more than a sci-fi game should be attacked for not catering to fantasy fans.

I wouldn't "attack" them for that kind of thing, but I'd sure appreciate it if they would stop, and the presence or absence of such illustrations affects my purchasing decisions. I don't want that kind of borderline-pornographic garbage in my life.

But I agree that publishers who make it shouldn't be "attacked" in personal ways. People have a right to sell even things that I find repugnant.

 

[Maxperson]

#2) I don't recall seeing any prestige classes that weren't available to both genders. That said, I didn't have a massive collection of books for 3e, so there may have been some that existed in books that I never owned.

There are at least two all female ones I can think of. Hathran Witches, and some all female unicorn rider one.