Harassment in gaming

[Darkwing Duck]

The fact that you're more concerned about someone who has experienced harassment discussing it in a "responsible manner" than actually discussing what the community can do to deter this sort of reprehensible behavior disturbs and disgusts me.

Only a "responsible manner" is constructive.
Tell me, if I were to be raped and, in response to my rape, I painted all black men as rapists, would that be responsible? would it be constructive? would it even matter to you or would you be too wrapped up in the delusion that correctly identifying the perpetrators isn't necessary for " the community to deter this sort of reprehensible behavior"?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Strawman spotted!

She didn't vilify all white males, nor even all white males in the hobby. Operating from personal experience, the reports of others and the easily verified demographics that white males dominate the hobby on the USA, she posited that most of the harassment of women in the hobby has been and continues to be originating with white males.

While you continue to attack the form of her assertions, do you have ANYTHING constructive to say about how to deal with the underlying problem on the merits?

 

[Azzy]

Only a "responsible manner" is constructive.
Tell me, if I were to be raped and, in response to my rape, I painted all black men as rapists, would that be responsible? would it be constructive? would it even matter to you or would you be too wrapped up in the delusion that correctly identifying the perpetrators isn't necessary for " the community to deter this sort of reprehensible behavior"?

/facepalm

Danny tackled this better than I could have.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

She didn't vilify all white males, nor even all white males in the hobby.

You mean, other than to emphasize the -whiteness- of the attackers and to state that most every other male in the hobby was a coward? Then to emphasize the alleged "omnipresence" of the harassment?

While you continue to attack the form of her assertions, do you have ANYTHING constructive to say about how to deal with the underlying problem on the merits?

Throw out the ignorant and unhelpful broad brush attacks. Build alliances. Don't teach, to use a metaphor brought up earlier, the people who are on fire to run away from the people who are ready and willing to help them (even when those who want to help are *gasp* men) out of fear that those people will just douse them with gasoline.

 

[Rottle]

Thanks mech, the advice helps. I think it would have to be obviously case by case, if the harassment is over then asking the person if they would like me to get someone in authority not only offers to help but let's them know they have help at hand. If it on going I wouldn't be entirely comfortable leaving the person in that situation to get help, I would want to stay just in case. Maybe shouting for an authority type or offering to walk with the harassed to an authority figure helps.

Makes me feel this thread has value if I can learn one thing to help or at least really burn it in my mind to look out for those who might need a little support.

 

[MechaPilot]

Thanks mech, the advice helps. I think it would have to be obviously case by case, if the harassment is over then asking the person if they would like me to get someone in authority not only offers to help but let's them know they have help at hand. If it on going I wouldn't be entirely comfortable leaving the person in that situation to get help, I would want to stay just in case. Maybe shouting for an authority type or offering to walk with the harassed to an authority figure helps.

I have to admit my ignorance of much of the minutia of cons (I have never been to one before) is inhibiting my ability to participate as fully and informedly as I would like. I don't know if the "someone in authority" usually has an out-of-the-way office/lounge, or if you're able to flag someone over by waving to them. Based on what others have said about the substantive lack of security, the poor overall training of security that is present, and other factors, I'm going to have to assume the former is more likely. And, if that's the case you're definitely right that leaving the person in the harassment situation while you go to get help is not a good idea. I like your idea of offering to walk the person to someone in authority.

My only caveat about walking the person to someone in authority is to pick a public route. If I was being harassed and a person who was walking me to someone in authority appeared to be taking me on a route that might leave us alone together, I'd be a little suspicious (simply because of the rules all of us women are raised with); especially now that I know that there's probably not a substantial security camera presence.

Makes me feel this thread has value if I can learn one thing to help or at least really burn it in my mind to look out for those who might need a little support.

There have been quite a few good moments in these threads. Unfortunately, they also get sidetracked by both legitimate tangents and by people apparently trying to derail the conversation.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Throughout this entire discussion, I've said that there is room for ALL victims. You and others like you are the ones protesting discussing male victims.

You're conflating two different actions here, and I am not convinced you're doing it simply because you're confused.

It has been said, repeatedly, that this is a discussion about the harassment of women in gaming. The problem exists. We are trying to discuss what to do about it.

It has also been said, repeatedly, that harassment of women in gaming merits its own discussion. Why? Because the problem is big enough and severe enough. That, and it's just wrong to let the harassment continue.

Now, because the topic merits discussion does not mean that the topic of sexual harassment of men in gaming, and different kinds of harassment of men in gaming in general, is verboten. It just means it's a distraction in this thread.

You're not the first person to construe requests to stop with the distractions as calls to not discuss the issue of harassment of men in gaming. (But the fact that you're the most recent is probably why you're catching such heat.)

So please, if sexual harassment of men in gaming is really that big of a problem, and if you can point users of this forum to similar instances (like what I asked for from you HERE, and still have yet to receive), then by all means start a new thread on the topic.

By simple math, since most people are heterosexual and men are the primary consumers of RPGs, there probably is more sexual abuse of women in RPGs.

Yep. And not just probably. And they're mostly white, too.

And just as a reminder: we're at the point in the thread where debating the actual level of harassment of women is behind us.

Looking forward to your on topic comments about how the harassment of women in gaming can be curbed and stopped.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

TO THE MODS:

Is there a way to create a pop-up window that appears whenever someone who has not posted yet in the thread decides to do so, that warns them that it's required to read the thread in its entirety first, so posts made that rehash prior issues or that attempt to re-open arguments that derail the discussion, won't be looked at kindly?

 

[Eltab]

neither her claims nor any by posters here matter as much as making the change in our collective behavior. Not to me anyway.

As one of the people who has described incidents and resolutions, I find your statement mystifying.

 

[Umbran]

I don't know if the "someone in authority" usually has an out-of-the-way office/lounge, or if you're able to flag someone over by waving to them.

It depends on the size of the convention.

A convention typically will not have a security staffer present in every single room at all times. Some select spaces may have oversight. There will usually be an Operations office, and possibly a Security office as well - not too far out of the way, as people from those offices need easy access to the rest of the convention. So, generally, you can't just wave and have a security person show up. Walking the person to the security or ops space is what's more likely to happen. And, as noted, those offices are generally not far removed from the main populated spaces. A public route will usually be easy.

And, of course, as I noted upthread - the most recent case of men misbehaving at a con I have been involved with was perpetrated by a member of the security staff. The security staff is only as good as the process that chooses them and trains them.