Harassment in gaming

[Rygar]

The thing is, people keep trying to treat this as a criminal issue. It's not. Not really. The rape scene in a game, the racist comment about buying a "noble savage" figure, even the chant of "old enough..." is not something that will involve the police, let alone go to court. So, why are people trying to treat this like a police procedural where we have to gather evidence, interview witnesses, etc? Good grief, in any other circumstance that would be ludicrous.

Woman goes to a bounce in a bar and says that buddy is harassing her. What happens? Bouncer talks to the guy, and possibly ejects him. There's no interviewing witnesses, reviewing security tapes, or anything like that. Complaint is made, it's acted upon and end of story.

In a hotel, I tell the manager that the people in the next room are being very loud. He goes and talks to them. He doesn't sit outside the room with a microphone and a decibel meter determining if my complaint has merit. No, he immediately calls the room, and tells them there's been a complaint, could you please keep it down.

Why would this be treated any differently?

Actually, this topic can lead to court proceedings. Reference the Honey Badgers at a con last year, with the presenters permission they answered a question respectfully from an opposing point of view to the presenter, and a bit later were ejected from the Con for "Harassment". There is video evidence and they are sueing the con.

It would be great if this were still a normal situation like you describe, but over the past year it has become a weapon to be wielded against those who hold opposing views and has been used numerous times in efforts to attempt to eject people from cons or prevent them from even attending.

 

[Deset Gled]

Actually, this topic can lead to court proceedings. ... There is video evidence and they are sueing the con.

To be pedantic, that's still not a criminal issue. It's a civil one. Different in many ways, including that the burden of proof in civil court is a "preponderance of the evidence" not "beyond a reasonable doubt". I believe Hussar's point is that some people are using the latter standard in a case that calls for the former.

 

[Fergurg]

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[Fergurg]

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[DOTTIE]

The thing is, people keep trying to treat this as a criminal issue. It's not. Not really. The rape scene in a game, the racist comment about buying a "noble savage" figure, even the chant of "old enough..." is not something that will involve the police, let alone go to court. So, why are people trying to treat this like a police procedural where we have to gather evidence, interview witnesses, etc? Good grief, in any other circumstance that would be ludicrous.

Woman goes to a bounce in a bar and says that buddy is harassing her. What happens? Bouncer talks to the guy, and possibly ejects him. There's no interviewing witnesses, reviewing security tapes, or anything like that. Complaint is made, it's acted upon and end of story.

In a hotel, I tell the manager that the people in the next room are being very loud. He goes and talks to them. He doesn't sit outside the room with a microphone and a decibel meter determining if my complaint has merit. No, he immediately calls the room, and tells them there's been a complaint, could you please keep it down.

Why would this be treated any differently?

You should generally want to avoid involving police, unless you absolutely need 9-1-1. The police are not on your side. The public has this misconception that they are, but they are really out to keep the peace. If you are too upset, and riling people up about anything, whatever the issue, they might see you as a problem and at the least what may happen is they will be that much harder for you to persuade to help or believe you. Some police are cruel people who will abuse their authority.

 

[Sadras]

How much of an issue is harassment within our gaming community? Do we believe that harassment is more prevalent within our gaming community than in general? If the answer to the second question is a yes, I would seriously be surprised, because generally I think guys are guys everywhere. I get the 'boys club mentality, I imagine there was a similar reaction when women started joining golf clubs. The harassment issue is foreign to me, but I'm thinking it might be more prevalent (besides the points raised by @MechaPilot previously) due to the 'safety' of the boys club, I'm guessing, which is pretty pathetic.

I understand the occasional gawking, a few turn-back looks...etc are the norm, but the groping, overly sexual passes and rape threats and the like are way past point of comfortable. I'm hoping the harassment issue goes the way of the dodo as the demographic of our community changes as I expect it would. Many of us are bringing wives, girlfriends, daughters and their friends into the hobby so it can only but change.

 

[Hussar]

Actually, this topic can lead to court proceedings. Reference the Honey Badgers at a con last year, with the presenters permission they answered a question respectfully from an opposing point of view to the presenter, and a bit later were ejected from the Con for "Harassment". There is video evidence and they are sueing the con.

It would be great if this were still a normal situation like you describe, but over the past year it has become a weapon to be wielded against those who hold opposing views and has been used numerous times in efforts to attempt to eject people from cons or prevent them from even attending.

No, it really, really hasn't. A lone case of harassment being misapplied (I am not familiar with this specific case, so, I'll just assume that it is) does not mean that harassment is now being used as a weapon to eject people.

Until you can show me a list of repeated offences where harassment laws are being used as a weapon over a period of time, I'm going to side with the angels here and not worry over much about outliers.

 

[tomBitonti]

The Honey Badgers case doesn't seem to be about harassment, but rather, about the convention ejecting the group. The convention claimed harassment complaints, and seem to have used those as a basic for ejecting the group. The group claims discrimination based on their political views, which is a protected category in Canada.

The case does seem to be an example showing that harassment claims can be used to cause civil harm. That is, depending on the particulars of the case, which are uncertain. (I tried to find information about the case, but didn't find a lot that I can rely on.)

Thx!
TomB

 

[Max_Killjoy]

The Honey Badgers case doesn't seem to be about harassment, but rather, about the convention ejecting the group. The convention claimed harassment complaints, and seem to have used those as a basic for ejecting the group. The group claims discrimination based on their political views, which is a protected category in Canada.

The case does seem to be an example showing that harassment claims can be used to cause civil harm. That is, depending on the particulars of the case, which are uncertain. (I tried to find information about the case, but didn't find a lot that I can rely on.)

Thx!
TomB

The amount of spin online for that incident is pretty dizzying...

http://www.themarysue.com/calgary-expo-gamergate-evicted/
http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/22/behind-calgary-comic-cons-freeze-out-of-the-honey-badger-brigade/
https://supernerdland.com/welcome-t...e-opinions-unwelcome-the-honey-badger-affair/
http://kotaku.com/gamergate-booth-kicked-out-of-canadian-comic-expo-1698538297

 

[Mallus]

The amount of spin online for that incident is pretty dizzying...

FYI... there's a pretty good article about the Honey Badgers on Vice. It's... interesting, and by no means a hatchet job. They sound like a fascinating group -- I mean, they're female MRA's for gods sake -- but I gotta editorialize a bit: there are better ways to critique 3rd wave feminism as practiced online than by hitching your wagon to men's right's activists, the pick-up artists community, and Gamergate.

Lots of ways.

Like a ton.

Really.

The path to a more egalitarian feminism doesn't lie through a bunch of bitter, resentful, presumably unsuccessful because their so bitter & resentful, not to mention complain-y guys online. But I guess the Internet makes for strange bedfellows.