Has anyone done the math on 2H weapon vs unarmed TWF?

[werk]

Hah, there was me thinking adventurers generally had two fists. (And my sincere apologies to any reader who is actually missing a hand.) I don't see why a character shouldn't be allowed two attacks - you can make a secondary unarmed attack if you have a weapon in one hand, so why not allow two unarmed attaks if you've taken the TWF feat?

There's your disconnect, unarmed strike is not a fist or punch it is the ability to attack as if you were armed with A light weapon.

I totally agree with you, on principle, but try to find where the rules call out how many natural weapons a human has...or how many fists.

As Pat has pointed out, it would be technically using the same weapon in both hands, as it were. Most DM's would allow it IMO.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hah, there was me thinking adventurers generally had two fists.

And two feet, two knees, two elbows, two shoulders, one head (usually ...) ...

Attacking with any or all of them in any combination is still using a single weapon.

How many unarmed strikes can the guy with all of his limbs wield? 1.

How many unarmed strikes can the guy with no arms wield? 1.

 

[Uxkurik_Malsvar]

i came across this early in my dnd experience and just decided to roll over it. assume thats what flurry is for. heres something that will make things interesting.

my wife is currently playing her first dnd char. lvl 8 monk with vow of poverty feat(BoED), improved nat atk and something she took from the phb2, "decisive strike" basicly doubles the dmg of her normal strike. to take this she lost her flurry i said to her our dm my think she was un ballances had she just been throwing d20s out like mad and hiting with 2d8+3 everytime.

Truly though there are issues with both. but i think the best way to go for balance would be the fighter. if you want to focus on close combat then with out a doubt monk. as far as hitting well the monk would win in the end the more d20s the more chances for crits. tho the versitility of a fighters weapon could tip the balance. so i sapose it all depends on the end user. lol

 

[werk]

Yeah, the monk specifically states that it's unarmed strike cannot be considered an off-hand weapon. As a DM I'd allow it as a TWF attack (and played a ranger that did this) but not for a monk...largely becasue of theis scaling unarmed damage.

"There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed."

 

[Victim]

Take a combat character with BAB +20 and EAB +1.

On the one hand we have a character using a 2-handed weapon (4 attacks at +21/+16/+11/+6). On the other, we have a brawler with Improved Unarmed Combat and Perfect TWF (so 8 attacks at +19/+19/+14/+14/etc).

Has anyone done the maths on which is better? Assume all relevant feats. Note that Power Attack can be used with Improved Unarmed Combat. How does this compare with a 21st level monk?

Using a 2 handed weapon is much better since it's much cheaper to magically increase 1 weapon than to increase unarmed strikes.

 

[Goolpsy]

Well... What if said Monk weilds a Weapon in his "offhane" / 1 of his hands..
or even too... if i remember correctly you can use both flurry and TWF... as long as both prequisites are meet.

Its not like the weapon would count as primary weapon as a Monk can choose to use his unarmed as primary -> Head, knee's.. the other hand etc..

 

[RigaMortus2]

Well... What if said Monk weilds a Weapon in his "offhane" / 1 of his hands..
or even too... if i remember correctly you can use both flurry and TWF... as long as both prequisites are meet.

Its not like the weapon would count as primary weapon as a Monk can choose to use his unarmed as primary -> Head, knee's.. the other hand etc..

Only if it is a special monk weapon, like Sai or Nunchuku or Shuriken or Kama...

 

[werk]

Well... What if said Monk weilds a Weapon in his "offhane" / 1 of his hands..
or even too... if i remember correctly you can use both flurry and TWF... as long as both prequisites are meet.

Its not like the weapon would count as primary weapon as a Monk can choose to use his unarmed as primary -> Head, knee's.. the other hand etc..

A monk can attack unarmed with his hands full. So you could have a sai in your off hand and a cup of tea (or jug of saki) in your main with no real problem.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

A monk can attack unarmed with his hands full. So you could have a sai in your off hand and a cup of tea (or jug of saki) in your main with no real problem.

In fact, you get mad bonuses for the jug of sake.

 

[mvincent]

you can't TWF Unarmed Strike with itself (just like you can't TWF with the same shortsword in either hands).

From the Rules of the Game (if desired):
"you can use unarmed strikes as your "weapons" in a two-weapon attack"


The 3.5 FAQ gives similar provisions (if desired).