Has anyone tried Grim-n-Gritty Hit Point and Combat Rules, Version 4.0

[mafisto]

GnG Rules

For those of you looking for them, the GnG 3.2 (last major free version) and Revised & Simplified versions are located here: http://www.grim-n-gritty.com/documents/index.cfm?type=general

As a DM who's been running a GnG 3.2 campaign for two years, I can say that I really appreciate the effort put into 4.0. If anyone takes a look at the free versions and really likes what Ken's trying to do there, I can wholeheartedly recommend you purchase the 4.0 rules before trying to implement GnG in a campaign. This latest version is definitely worth the five bucks.

Ken, I have to admit that I'm morbidly interested in the kind of place where you can learn combat martial arts. Is this part of an identifiable style, school or underground ring of thugs?

 

[KenHood]

Is this part of an identifiable style, school or underground ring of thugs?

It's Bujinkan Budo/Ninpo Taijatsu. The current soke (grandmaster) is Masaaki Hatsumi. (He's considered a national treasure in Japan.) We have nine major ryu (schools) of martial arts. There are several minor ryu.

 

[KenHood]

Well, I'm not buying it. The PDF and your line of logic. I too have studied martial arts and while the Twin Cities is at a lack of little old men who can throw you with their fingers, we do have some dedicated men who have been in real life fights of life and death. Im at work, more to follow later

I understand your rejection of what I wrote. It's a common reaction. However, what I wrote is the truth, and it is what I believe. If you wish to dissuade me from it, please don't bother. I'm open to discussion, but don't have much interest in argument.

I've been involved in martial arts for over 20 years. Once I discovered the Bujinkan, I realized that everything I had previously done was largely a waste of time -- or rather a preparation for a higher truth. There is simply no comparison.

 

[Wayside]

If they are, it's hiding real good.

It's here, you just have to use the attachment link, not the link in the post.

 

[Raelcreve]

Combat Martial Arts

Actually, the Twin Cities has several old men who can whip the pants off you. If he's still around, try Grand Master Gin Foon Mark of Southern Praying Mantis in St. Paul (right by 3M).

While he's not a real old man, Sifu Ray Heyward of Twin Cities Tai Chi knows his stuff. There's also a BJJ instructor at Karate Junjtion in the Midway area (can't recall his name).

Unfortunately, the Twin Cities does not have a lot of really good schools. There may be a few instructors who know there stuff, but unfortunately, it's not easy making a good living being an instructor.

I do agree with you Ken, there's more to the martial arts than punching and kicking, and it takes a certain knowledge and level of instruction to differentiate the combat stuff from the sport stuff. I've discovered that most people who study martial arts are not likely to admit that what they've been studying for the last 2, 4, or 10 years is really a sport.

 

[KenHood]

I do agree with you Ken, there's more to the martial arts than punching and kicking, and it takes a certain knowledge and level of instruction to differentiate the combat stuff from the sport stuff. I've discovered that most people who study martial arts are not likely to admit that what they've been studying for the last 2, 4, or 10 years is really a sport.

I've had the same experience as well. It was a heck of thing for me when I realized the difference. The moment of epiphany was when my instructor demonstrated how simple it was to break a person's thumbs when they use the standard sort of fist. And I had just spent a while in a martial art where you build that massive callus on your knuckles so that you can smash ... er ... stuff, like bulls or car doors. It was a moment of "Well, I've been spending a lot of time on something I don't really need."

I think one of the interesting patterns in the d20 material I've seen is the treatment of martial arts as unarmed combat only. Or unarmed and esoteric weapons.

 

[mythusmage]

Folks, you're in combat your goal is to put the other guy down and make sure he stays down as fast as you can. That means you use every dirty trick you know to the best of your ability, and that includes paladins. It does no one any good for you to fight fair and get injured.

 

[DM-Rocco]

I understand your rejection of what I wrote. It's a common reaction. However, what I wrote is the truth, and it is what I believe. If you wish to dissuade me from it, please don't bother. I'm open to discussion, but don't have much interest in argument.

I've been involved in martial arts for over 20 years. Once I discovered the Bujinkan, I realized that everything I had previously done was largely a waste of time -- or rather a preparation for a higher truth. There is simply no comparison.

Well, I won't bother to argue, no point in trying to talk about it when so many people are followers of the flock. I could never get any points across when so many people who would be reading and replying are of your mind set.

I have my own experiences and you can not grapple with a large two-handed sword. You can fight with every inch of the weapon, you can smack them in the pummel, you can grab your own blade to help you out in combat, but that it not grappling. I grant you that you can use a bo staff to help pin others, but doing such a thing requires knowledge beyound simple training and I would say in D&D terms it would require several feats, but I won't get into it any more, you win, everybody buy 15 copy of his PDF and call it a day.

 

[KenHood]

I have my own experiences and you can not grapple with a large two-handed sword.

I cannot argue with your experiences. However, mine are different.

You can fight with every inch of the weapon, you can smack them in the pummel, you can grab your own blade to help you out in combat, but that it not grappling.

You are correct. Grappling is restraining your opponent and applying a hold of some sort.

Consider the most basic of grapple: the bear hug.

You can grab a person with your arms to initiate a bear hug.

One step up: Could you do it holding a belt or short cord in your hands?

Yes. That's relatively simple. Loop it around your opponent, while holding one end in each hand.

Another step up: Could you do it holding a three-foot stick in your hands?

Yep. You'd do pretty much the same thing you did with the cord. Since the stick is rigid, it may actually hurt your opponent more.

One more step: Could you do it holding a single-edged sword?

Yes. In the same manner as you would use the stick! (Ultimately, a sword is just a stick with sharpened edges. There's nothing holy or special or inherently magical about it--other than they cost a heck of lot more than sticks.) You grasp the hilt in one hand, the dull edge of the blade in the other, and the sharp edge of the sword goes into your opponent. And squeeze...

Final step: Could you do it holding a double-edged sword?

Yes. Again in the same manner as the previous examples. However, instead of grasping the dull edge of the blade, you grasp a sharp one.

You might ask: But, Ken, wouldn't you slice through your own fingers when you grasped the blade?

To which I would reply: No, not necessarily. Blades have to move or slide against a surface to cut it. For example, you can place a knife against the palm of your hand, edge on skin. It won't cut you until you draw the blade against your skin. You can even wrap your hand tightly about the blade and squeeze--as long as the blade doesn't move, it doesn't cut.

If you grasp the double-edged blade firmly in your hand and do not permit your hand to slip, you most likely will not be cut by your sword when you grapple.

Do I recommend this? Heck, no! I'm attempting to provide a very basic example of how one could grapple with a double-edged sword.

By the way: A bear hug is a HORRIBLE form of grappling. I don't recommend it either!

Were I to wield a double-edged, two-handed sword against an opponent, I would maintain my grip on the hilt and use part of my opponent's body as the "grip" on the blade. (Mind you, I'm not even talking about stabbing it through my opponent's body, yet.) For instance, I could hold the blade against the opponent's throat in the front, while the extension of the blade lays behind his shoulder. (I know this hard to visualize. I wish I knew how to post pictures in a message.) I would apply pressure with the hilt, most likely by simply walking past my opponent. The portion of the blade behind his shoulder acts as a fulcrum for my leverage. The opponent would most likely fall backwards. I would ride the blade towards the grip. Depending on circumstances, I would probably shift my knee into a position on the hilt, so that I could kneel on the sword as my opponent smashes into the ground and place my entire body mass on the end of my lever. On impact, the sword will most likely decapitate the victim or imbed itself deeply in the throat, after which a draw will complete the cut.

I grant you that you can use a bo staff to help pin others, but doing such a thing requires knowledge beyound simple training and I would say in D&D terms it would require several feats....

We've trained beginners--people who have never even punched another person--to grapple with a weapon in about thirty minutes. We generally start with a short staff (hanbo) and demonstrate how the principles apply to every weapon of every size.

I don't think it takes several feats, but it does require some training. To represent this, I made grappling with weapons part of the Improved Grapple feat.

 

[KenHood]

Folks, you're in combat your goal is to put the other guy down and make sure he stays down as fast as you can. That means you use every dirty trick you know to the best of your ability, and that includes paladins. It does no one any good for you to fight fair and get injured.

That's very true!

I would even go so far as to say that "dirty tricks" are not "dirty" in combat--only in sport.

Fair implies rules. There are none when life and limb are on the line. Even more so when you must act in defense of others.

I submit that a paladin would act with utter compassion towards those he protects and utter ruthlessness towards those who would harm them ("brutalidad justa" or "righteous ruthlessness").