Has D&D changed Dramatically over the Years?

[Hussar]

The last gaming session I went to, an ENWorld Gameday, involved people sitting at the table, playing characters, rolling dice to determine outcomes, laughing with one or two players with phenomenally horrible luck, shouting when a big evil enemy went down, and using one or two inappropriate double-entendres. (AD&D 1st edition)

The last gaming session I went to before the gameday, involved people sitting at the table, playing characters, rolling dice to determine outcomes, laughing with one or two players with phenomenally horrible luck, high-fiving when a big evil enemy went down, and using LOTS of inappropriate double-entendres and cursing like sailors. (D&D 3.5 edition, many supplement books)

The most of my gaming sessions from 1987 to now, have involved people sitting at the table, playing characters, rolling dice to determine outcomes, laughing with one or two players with phenomenally horrible luck, high-fiving when a big evil enemy went down, and alternating between double-entendres and cursing like sailors. (AD&D, 1st edition, and some 2nd edition)

Biggest difference between 1981 (when I started playing) and 1987 for me? Not so many innuendoes and profanity.

This is EXACTLY what was going through my mind. Well, maybe not exactly but close enough.

So, if I understand what you are saying, there is no difference in the feel between 1e and 3e, and both games at the table play roughly the same?

While that would seem to contradict what you've written about 1e on other threads, I am glad that you have come to a more moderate position.

RC

Ok, this is the second person who's come out and drug up other threads. Could we please stick to the topic at hand and not drag up history, which may or may not have anything to do with what we're talking about? I know there is an apparent need to win the Internet, but, sheesh.

OTOH, I would say that while there is obvious mechanical differences between the editions, if you step back, ignoring the mechanics for a moment, then the differences between my campaigns in 1982 and 2007 aren't really all that different. We did wahoo and we did deep immersion and we did everything in between. The biggest difference was the DM, not the number before the E.

 

[Piratecat]

The OD&D game we played with Gary Gygax at GenCon felt very different from my own D&D game. The OD&D game was more focused on dungeon crawling and exploration than my higher-powered, more political, plot-driven game. Both games were astonishingly fun.

 

[WayneLigon]

Let's see AC goes up instead of down and now the creators of all the settings have lost almost all control so I'd say it's changed alot.

All that is just fluff, though; it really means nothing. D&D just hasn't changed, as an experience, since it was created and I don't think that the heart of that experience will change greatly. The mechanics are just a means to an end. Indeed, D&D and all other RPGs are the same in this regard. You can take Vampire or Everway or On The Edge or Amber and run it exactly like a D&D game. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference once you got past the sheet you're looking at. Mechanics might make that experience easier or harder to get to, but really it's all the same under the hood.

 

[Hussar]

I partially agree with Hussar on this. For just about every characterization of how the game (or hobby) used to be different, I can recall an instance of the "new way" from 20 years ago.
*snip*

& I expect my approaches will continue to evolve.

Of course, Hussar hasn't experienced such shifts, and no doubt somebody has travelled paths nigh opposite to mine own.

Actually, my tastes have changed dramatically over the years as well. I've gone from pure hack and slash, into deep, political drama, to over the top action, to (probably very badly done) simulationism.

My point is, I could do any of those with any edition, and if you removed any rules references, you likely wouldn't be able to easily tell which edition it was for. A campaign with flying ships and flying castles, the PC's are a Minotaur, a couple of humans and a gnome. Which edition? 1e.

A campaign with alien invasion on Tripods? 2e

A pure dungeon romp - World's Largest Dungeon, 3e.

Could I do any of those in a different edition and they would play out almost exactly the same? Most certainly. That's why you can take modules from any edition and convert them into any other edition. It's work, of course, because the mechanics are different, but, ignoring the mechanics for a moment, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Ok, this is the second person who's come out and drug up other threads. Could we please stick to the topic at hand and not drag up history, which may or may not have anything to do with what we're talking about?

When history has a bearing on what we are talking about, bringing it up is sticking to the topic at hand. Of course, if your OP on this thread (and your viewpoint as expressed in other threads) is to be believed, then this is an evolution in viewpoint AFAICT. IOW, it seems to me that you are now saying exactly the opposite of what The Shaman thinks you are saying. I.e., you have reversed your opinion on this topic. Which is, IMHO, a good thing.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


RC

 

[Reynard]

A pure dungeon romp - World's Largest Dungeon, 3e.

Didn't WLD come witha bunch of caveats and rules changes in order to make this classic, expansive and open dungeon crawl with with 3e?

 

[Ourph]

The play experience at the table has changed drastically because gamer culture has changed drastically in the last 30 years and the people I play with are different than the people I played with when I was 10 years old. The rules have changed too and that obviously changes the experience as well.

Funnily enough, I would say (as with fashion and music) ~25 years has allowed my gaming experience to come full circle. The games I'm playing today are more like the games I was playing as a kid than the games I was playing 10-15 years ago. I would say the RPG/D&D experience I was having in 1997 was more dramatically different than the RPG/D&D experience I "grew up with" than the RPGs/D&D I'm playing in 2007.

 

[Psion]

Didn't WLD come witha bunch of caveats and rules changes in order to make this classic, expansive and open dungeon crawl with with 3e?

I don't think those rules changes and caveats are so much necessary so much as a demonstration of the lead developer's lack of understanding and hangups.

 

[Hussar]

Didn't WLD come witha bunch of caveats and rules changes in order to make this classic, expansive and open dungeon crawl with with 3e?

First off, wut he said

I don't think those rules changes and caveats are so much necessary so much as a demonstration of the lead developer's lack of understanding and hangups.

Secondly, the actual number of changes to the rules are no more than the changes made to many modules. It's not like the designers limited you to second level cleric spells for example or stripped off 2 plusses from your weapons.

About the only changes that got made were suggestions to ban druids (probably a good suggestion) and limit xp (completely unnecessary IME - BTB xp rewarded exactly the right amount of xp needed). Oh, and Web got nerfed. Other changes were in keeping with the fluff of the campaign (no dimensional travel in a prison built for housing demons for example).

But, honestly, not a whole lot of rule changes.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

I agree with Ourph. Which shouldn't surprise anyone--I usually do.