Has FR "jumped the shark"?

[RobNJ]

Re: What about the Bull?

anyway, FR jumped the Shark ages ago, it still does. City of the Spiderqueen, BoVD, FR novels. Come on people! reading that stuff is like wearing panties made of vaseline!

City of the Spider Queen isn't out yet. How do you know it sucks? Book of Vile Darkness is both not out, and not for Forgotten Realms. So how do you know it sucks? And how does it relate to Forgotten Realms?

Or this is more about you wanting to flame pointlessly?

 

[Krail Stromquism]

Dude, check it out.

I never said it sucks, it may be schlocky but not sucky.

Notice how Im making room for it on my bookshelf?

All those sweet sweet books filled with page upon page of Fan-Appeasing Fluffin-Nut.

Its not about flames man, its about love.

Jumpin the Sharks all about the compromising positions the head producers/directors/bosses put beloved characters/products/settings. its all about one-upsmanship.

Its all about bigger explosions, bigger excitement.




And his best friend is a talking pie.

Howard, your a genuis.

 

[Bryan Vining]

How many Manshoons?

Well, I do think FR jumped the shark.

I'm a long-time FR fan, but, recently, the fun has gone out of the setting for me. Partially this is due to my ever-increasing interest in settings wherein you don't have to spend time figuring out why one of the 50 or so 25+ level NPCs that are good-aligned aren't busy fixing the world's problems. To each his own, but I just can't buy that all of these uber-powerful folks are so busy saving Faerun that not one of them can handle a problem that's important enough to be fodder for a party of 5th level PCs, much more reliably and quickly than said 5th level party.

Anyway, my biases aside, FR jumped the shark with the Manshoon clone thing, IMO. Manshoon was one of the original FR villians (if not THE original FR villian), and he's my absolute fave NPC to run from FR. To make him into the clown that the clone thing did was just, well... disappointing. Add to that that Fzoul is now top dog in the Zhentarim. Eh, I just don't care for it anymore. A lot of people will suggest the ToT, but FR at the time was very popular and TSR didn't need to do something like that to make things interesting in FR. Towards the end of 2nd ed, FR was starting to grasp at straws, IMO.

Anyway, 3E FR looks okay. Certainly the bringing back of Shade provides a better reason for all the super-NPCs to be busy, but they ratcheted up the power level of the setting yet again. Now, 'ol El is over 30th level. If you go back and look at the gray box, I think you'll be stunned out how (relatively) low level El was then compared to now. Anyway, I think there's a lot of cool stuff in the FRCS. I'm just tired of the setting.

 

[RobNJ]

Re: Dude, check it out.

I never said it sucks, it may be schlocky but not sucky.

But how can you know a product is schlocky if you can't have possibly read it yet? City of the Spider Queen isn't out. Book of Vile Darkness isn't out. How can you determine they're schlocky? And what does Book of Vile Darkness have to do with Forgotten Realms?

You got hung up on the word "suck" rather than the word "schlock" and thereby completely failed to address any point I made.

 

[RobNJ]

Re: How many Manshoons?

Partially this is due to my ever-increasing interest in settings wherein you don't have to spend time figuring out why one of the 50 or so 25+ level NPCs that are good-aligned aren't busy fixing the world's problems. To each his own, but I just can't buy that all of these uber-powerful folks are so busy saving Faerun that not one of them can handle a problem that's important enough to be fodder for a party of 5th level PCs, much more reliably and quickly than said 5th level party.

Why doesn't the government use nuclear bombs to deal with street drug dealers? Why doesn't Robert DeNiro star in every single movie, and why isn't every single movie directed by Steven Soderberg on a script by Quentin Tarantino?

Because there're too many movies being made; because you don't need to use too much force on a street-dealer.

This complaint has never made sense to me. All you have to do is either say, "They're busy with more important things," or leave them out. They're not so integral to the setting that they can't be left out.

And then this argument goes the same when the characters themselves get to higher levels. How do you explain to your players when they're 10th level why a 10th level party didn't come in and wipe out that cave full of kobolds back when they were first level?

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Re: How many Manshoons?

I'm a long-time FR fan, but, recently, the fun has gone out of the setting for me. Partially this is due to my ever-increasing interest in settings wherein you don't have to spend time figuring out why one of the 50 or so 25+ level NPCs that are good-aligned aren't busy fixing the world's problems..

this is the reason i never EVER use the epic level-world saving-novel characters in my games. i like FR, and i don't want it ruined for me by bad novels or bad plot ideas. those characters are not a factor in my games.

have the PCs ever heard of Elminster? maybe. will they ever meet him? not even on their birthday

 

[Desdichado]

Re: Re: What about the Bull?

City of the Spider Queen isn't out yet. How do you know it sucks?

What are you talking about? I saw this at my WotC store last week.

 

[ranix65]

Heh. Ain't it true, though. I wasted a good hour and a half at work on that site.

It's all about having Ted McGinley as the patron saint

You only wasted an hour and a half? It took up most of a whole day(I'm up all night, so...) for me. But then again I was scrolling through most of the comments on Xena, Hercules, Daria, and Beavis and Butthead.

 

[RobNJ]

Re: Re: Re: What about the Bull?

What are you talking about? I saw this at my WotC store last week.

I hadn't been able to find it so far, though if it's already out, wonderful. I'll be picking it up ASAP.

Nevertheless, I'd hazard a guess this guy didn't look at it. And the points still stand on BOVD. And, furthermore, there's no context for "it's schlocky." Someone who was interested in contributing to the thread would actually say what they liked or disliked about it. Someone who just wanted to flame would do the kind of thing the poster who we're referring to has done.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

On that note: I think the stuff with Silverymoon and the cities of the North banding together is both a nice occupation for a high level character and a pretty neat development within the setting.

I like the Martini glass idea, maybe some story set in the South?