Has FR "jumped the shark"?

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Forgotten Realms jumped the shark right away.

Greyhawk will NEVER jump!

I don't see how this can pertain to the actual settings, since it is the individual DM that determines the direction of the campaign, not the setting books or the novels.

This designation could apply to the novels of which I say:

FR: still jumped the shark immediately.

Greyhawk: There are actually GH novels?!

Dragonlance: After the first two trilogies for sure, the time travel in the second trilogy may have pushed it a bit, but it had me gripped for the whole read.

 

[Happy Monkey]

Man that site is good. I've just been reliving the horror of "Diff'rent Strokes" and the Dana Plato memorial page.

Dana Plato rocks(ed)

Anyway, I am not sure when when FR jumped the shark...

I think it was when I realised Elminster was a reoccurring character, or was it his girlfriend.

There was the Drizzt novels, oh so many. Perhaps the Drizzt clones, no wait I loved that for so long.

Drow? I couldn't get enough... 2 scimitars... deux ex machina... high level heroes while we wallowed at 5th forever... Baldurs gate and the blood of a god... Volo?... Wait! It might be the seven sisters... no, not them.

I think it was when I started a Dragonlance campaign without the campaign setting. Which led to a homebrew setting.

The one-up-manship of FR was a leap too far, with the sharks never really threatening. It was the chosen of Mystra thing in which even the illlusion of greatness was snapped away. My character, hopeless as he was, could never hope to be more than an Elminster toady.

To be a toady to such a pile of was too much. Once I felt that my campaign was just as good as I wanted, that was that. Course this was when I became a DM.

FR is still jumping, but not for me. Amen.

 

[Skarp Hedin]

like Pamela Anderson and Gina Gershon with new bigger breast implants inacting a lesbian love scene riding in a giant Martini glass jumping over Victorias Secret models having a pillow fight on a huge mound of Velveta!

Whoa, dude.. you've got some exotic hobbies.

As for the Forgotten Realms jumping the shark.. it's hard to say. I feel that it's too constrained by novel histories, but.. it's an individual decision. I don't think I'll DM the Realms again, but I do enjoy reading the 3e FR products so far.

 

[Bryan Vining]

Re: Re: How many Manshoons?

This complaint has never made sense to me. All you have to do is either say, "They're busy with more important things," or leave them out. They're not so integral to the setting that they can't be left out.

And then this argument goes the same when the characters themselves get to higher levels. How do you explain to your players when they're 10th level why a 10th level party didn't come in and wipe out that cave full of kobolds back when they were first level?

Yes, you can say that they are just to busy doing other things. I've done that. It works for the players just fine. It doesn't work for me, the DM. Sure, some of these characters have political responsibilities... the Simbul comes to mind. (OTOH, she's rather fond of taking off to fry Red Wizards now again for little more than the mirth of it).

That's all well and good, but that basically leaves for my players the not-as-world-threatening plot lines to follow up on. For my style of gaming, taking care of some orcs when the City of Shade is floating around is well, boring. Sure, someone needs to do it. But, for me, playing a fantasy RPG is partially about getting glory for your character and feeling like you've accomplished something meaningful. What's meaningful depends on context. It's meaningful to the local village that you got rid of the orcs. It's not so meaningful to most others in the world. Everyone has a stake in what happens with the Archwizards, though, albeit to different degrees. That's what wrankles me. If I'm playing a character, I don't want to be involved in fighting the 20th most-important problem in the world. I want to be involved in stopping the number one problem. So what if, in a "realistic" story my character wouldn't be powerful enough to logically involved? I don't play D&D to be part of the mop-up team for NPCs. So, given all of that, I want to be involved in the "big story". Now, every campaign world is going to have NPCs that are much more poweful than the PCs. That's good. And they are going to have to be "busy", too, if they aren't involved in the "biggest problem in the world" at that point. So, we're in agreement there. The problem for me is that FR has SO many ultra-powerful NPCs that can deal with the world's biggest problems, that there has to be a level of constant threat to FR for their constant "business" to be believable that is, in and of itself, not believable to me.

So, here's the thing: Either the party is involved in something less than one of the most important things threatening the world at the time or they are involved and I have to try to accept what is, for me, a largely unacceptable notion. Both of those are, for me, unappealing.

Well, that's my take on it. I'll always have a fondness for FR, but I don't see myself playing in it very often in the future.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Independence Day

I think this whole thread leads us to one inescable question:

What will be the Forgotten Realms Scenario that will inspire a movie that will jump all the sharks ever wearing a leather jacket crafted from the hide of a celestial bull?

I vote with a Man-Shoun becoming a chosen of Lolth and thus changing into:

Spider Man-Shoun!!!

Also, I really want to see Elminster and the other epics fight off an alien invasion.

 

[Krail Stromquism]

playing to the masses

Ive flipped thru the CotSQ and dont really have to see the BoVD to know that they are both Shark Jumpers.

A complete adventure centered around the fanboys wettest wet dream the DROW! Its Sensational! Its Incredible! Its a big gasoline explosion! BOOM! Its totally pandering to a small niche of the Realms that the Drow actually take up, but because everyone has a chub-a-lub for them they focus in on it! Its giving the people what they want but in perspective they really shouldnt be getting it (in the over all view of the Realms).

As for BoVD, it fits right in with the Splat Books, feeding the thought that "My PC needs to be more powerful, I need more Books so I can get stronger Feats and Spells!" what inherently does it have to do with FR? Im ashamed to admit it , but very, very little. Althought it stands as a great example of SJ'ing.

I totally plan on buying it as soon as I see it.

CotSQ, I could buy but I cant immediatley use it. Ill probably buy it used though.

Velveeta is a great snack and I indulge in it often, Ive got a huge HUNK of it wedge in my pants as I type this. The important thing is I know its Velveeta and I know its wrong to keep it wedged between my thighs but I do anyway! Why? Cause it feels good, kinda makes me laugh and covers up any embarrasing oders. Just like all these Shark Jumpin books do! Im not afraid to admit it.

I think its high time you stood up and said "I play D&D and am damn proud of it! I love schlocky fantasy movies and giggle whenever Jessica Beil is onscreen during Seventh Heaven!"

Come on! be a Shark Jump Lover!

but to get to the point, yes FR has ample examples of Shark Jumping, Greyhawk, I'd say no to. Darksun, Oh goodness yes, such sweet shark jumping. Spelljamer, yeozzers YES, Planescape yeah eventually, the whole premise is a shark jumper but it was done so well it didnt really slip till near its mid-endish period. Ravenloft, hmmm no, well maybe with the entire I, Strahd books and such.

RobNJ, so do you think these settings are guilty of Shark Jumpin or what?

 

[Deedlit]

Dragonlance jumped with DoSF(Destroyed the setting), and jumped back with DoVM(I won't tell you why, as it would be a spoiler) IMO.

 

[RobNJ]

Re: playing to the masses

Velveeta is a great snack and I indulge in it often,

PLONK

 

[blackshirt5]

Actually Krail, I giggle whenever Lucy comes on the screen on 7th Heaven. She's cute as all get out.

Her and Lacy Chabert from Party of Five and the new Lost in Space movie.

And Drizzt just went "Heyyyy!" with his thumb up.

HI ENWorld!

 

[Krail Stromquism]

fanboy desire

Any product that panders to fanboys or fan favorites, indulges in giving that extra bit of power to said favorites just cause its "Cooler" ends up making it "Schlocky"

Example: Reign of Fire, a very schlocky movie. did I go see it? yes, did I enjoy it? yes Did I know it was schlocky from the trailer? ofcourse! Did I know it was schlock from the one line desription "Dragons vs Tanks." YES!

If you think that I need to have read these books from cover to cover to know that they are pandering to the wants of us ravenous consumers, then thats good for you.

At no point have I said these were poorly designed or constructed products. At no point did I say I wasnt going to read and buy them. I enjoy them immensley. Do I think they lower the common denominator for the setting? Usually, they do.

Its just like, everyone has at some point in their D&D career made a character with Red hair and Green eyes. Why? cause it cool! but what happens when you end up with a world of red headed green eyed PCs? it just looses a bit of its charm. you see what Im getting at here?

I more than understand to make money you gotta give the people what they want and in doing that your going to have to Jump a Shark every once in a while. Its sticking the landing that gets tricky.

PS-I dont think Ive missed a single episode of 7th Heaven. I love it, oh its SO bad, but I cant help myself. BH 90210, I got sick of, Melrose I got sick of, but never the 7th Heaven! I have a friend that looks just like Ruthie.