Has the horse left the barn?

[ShinHakkaider]

EDIT: Double Post.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Yeah, I dont see myself playing or running 4E.
WOTC has done a bang up job of convincing me that, while it is a well designed game, it's just not for me. Pathfinder and Trailblazer is what I'm invested in for the time being.

Oddly enough, I'm waiting to see what the Castle Ravenloft game is like when it comes out. It looks kind of interesting and as it's a board-game and not an RPG it might just get a pass from me.

 

[jbear]

I have only read pages 1,2 and 6 but generally it seems that the answer to the question is no. Which is quite interesting.

I have a feeling WoTC has responded on several issues to try and get fans of other editions that had complaints about 4e on board (Bards, Half-Orcs, Druids, Gnomes and Barbarians for example were quickly brought into the game in the PHB2 and 'fluff' is far more prevalent in all the most recent releases... ). The Hybrid rules seems to be another example of this as it allows for a massively diverse range of character concepts, especially considering you can still multi-class as a hybrid character as well. Dark Sun being the new setting seems to have raised a lot of positive passion and enthusiasm from many 1e veterans.

Nevertheless I get the feeling that from page 1 to page 6 most people have expressed a fairly calm and definitive 'No, I've moved on and nothing is going to change that'.

This makes the Essentials line, which doesn't seem to be targeted at verterans of any edition, and especially not those who have tried 4e and rejected it, a fairly smart move in terms of 4e survival. It leads me to suspect that WoTC is aware that the boat has sailed for many people and energy is best spent aimed at new players as opposed to banging the proverbial head against the wall trying to convince those who are uninterested.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

This makes the Essentials line, which doesn't seem to be targeted at verterans of any edition, and especially not those who have tried 4e and rejected it, a fairly smart move in terms of 4e survival. It leads me to suspect that WoTC is aware that the boat has sailed for many people and energy is best spent aimed at new players as opposed to banging the proverbial head against the wall trying to convince those who are uninterested.

I get the same feeling...

...which is ironic, because the Essentials line may actually end up getting me to look at 4e again-- despite my being among the passengers on the Ship That Has Sailed. For some reason, that roll out just seems a lot more appealing to me. So we'll see.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This makes the Essentials line, which doesn't seem to be targeted at verterans of any edition, and especially not those who have tried 4e and rejected it, a fairly smart move in terms of 4e survival. It leads me to suspect that WoTC is aware that the boat has sailed for many people and energy is best spent aimed at new players as opposed to banging the proverbial head against the wall trying to convince those who are uninterested.

Between the nature of the design changes (and their marketing), my take on 4Ed in general was that it was targeted more at trying to capture new players & expand the overall market (which it has done quite well) with just a modicum of concern about the vets. In that sense, the research WotC did was as much about seeing how little they needed to keep from earlier editions as addressing what people thought genuinely needed changing.

This enabled them to release a game that, to some, is more revolution than evolution. They strongly suspected from their research that their sales from new players would greatly outweigh their sales lost to non-adopters (at least in the short term).

The Essentials is merely another step along that path.

 

[Shemeska]

Between the nature of the design changes (and their marketing), my take on 4Ed in general was that it was targeted more at trying to capture new players & expand the overall market (which it has done quite well)

Has it though? Nobody except WotC themselves have the sales numbers to say that it has one way or the other.

 

[Drkfathr1]

Has it though? Nobody except WotC themselves have the sales numbers to say that it has one way or the other.

That's what I always wonder too. Are they really gaining more than they're losing?

 

[Shemeska]

That's what I always wonder too. Are they really gaining more than they're losing?

The answer is what will make or break the success of the edition. Coming out with such stuff as Gamma World and its ramdomized card boosters, and other stuff so soon into the edition, lots of very experimental stuff, speaks to me that they need to boost sales, and are now taking chances. Others will view this in a very different light, but that's my reaction.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Has it though? Nobody except WotC themselves have the sales numbers to say that it has one way or the other.

Some other thread some time ago, there was a poster who did post the sales figures for 4Ed from a variety of sources, cross referenced with the sales for 3Ed (but not 3.5) over the first year, and 4Ed's sales were significantly higher.

Now, as to the breakdown of those sales, that's a different matter- tallying who didn't buy your product is difficult work. Surveys are about the only way to put a hard number on that factor.

Even anecdotal evidence is mixed. There were several people who claimed they weren't going to buy 4Ed because it was "too soon", a "naked money grab", etc., indicating to me at least that they were not going to be buying 4Ed anytime in the near future (about a year or so, minimum).

OTOH, there were people like me who- expecting an evolutionary product and not a revolutionary one- pre-ordered their copies of the Core 3, then were disappointed by the product's nature.

Still, from what I've seen of subsequent posts regarding sales stats, 4Ed's sales continue to be comparable or superior to 3Ed's. (Again, I haven't seen stats compared to 3.5.)

 

[M.L. Martin]

The answer is what will make or break the success of the edition. Coming out with such stuff as Gamma World and its ramdomized card boosters, and other stuff so soon into the edition, lots of very experimental stuff, speaks to me that they need to boost sales, and are now taking chances. Others will view this in a very different light, but that's my reaction.

That's possible . . . or it's possible that with a solid revenue stream in place, they feel like they have a greater safety margin to experiment. "For who has descended into the pits of WotC, or has explored the darkness of the counsels of Management?" (Apologies to JRRT.)