Has the horse left the barn?

[Shemeska]

This particular bridge was burned a while back, probably even before 4e was released, based on various statements by the developers and their design focus on their forthcoming game. What they did to FR only drove further nails in the coffin lid.

It's a shame, because I remember during 3e of having hopes for what a possible 4e might be able to bring to the game, and might remedy a few things I found lacking in the system from a flavor or design perspective. Unfortunately what they did was take those things I found lacking or didn't like and make them even more pronounced. They went the complete opposite direction at warp speed than I'd hoped for.

The night before the public release of 4e, I found out what was going to happen regarding it and what the DDI was going to be. First words out of my mouth were something along the lines of, "What the hell? Those idiots are years too early. They're going to fracture their base and damage their own IP in the process. What the hell were they thinking?" Obviously there were more expletives, but I'm not sure my initial knee-jerk thoughts haven't been correct based on what has happened since then.

At this stage the only implausible way for me to appreciate 4e might be either for a public apology about the handling of several topics (FR, marketing, etc) and/or the release of a 4e rules Planescape setting that was allowed to continue to use its own cosmology and not forced to incorporate the history and tropes of the 4e default world - and letting me write part of it wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Ariosto]

"But, darling, isn't The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants III enough to change your mind about preferring The Terminator? Are you sure?"

I'm sure. And I don't have a "significant other" bent on dragging me to a 4E game.

If I had, then guess what? It's a two-way street. There would be some reciprocal give with that take.

Whatever time, energy and money someone expected me to spend on 4E, he or she could spend on 1E.

 

[Kafen]

I'm sure. And I don't have a "significant other" bent on dragging me to a 4E game.

What If?

What if it was a long standing gamer/poster you respected running the 4e game instead of a spouse/BF/GF?

The point about it being a people thing comes up a few times. I dislike 4e enough to not ask for my PHB back - on loan currently. Yet, I have no problem playing at a 4e game table if certain people invite me. The people are more important than the game if you are close knit enough as a group.

Improve 4e? Sure... It will not kill me.
Is it too late to hook me as a player? No. I have the PHB I if I ever choose to get it back.
Is it too late to hook me as a GM? Oooooh yeah. Pathfinder, Eclipse Phase, and M&Ms are my main focus.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What If?

What if it was a long standing gamer/poster you respected running the 4e game instead of a spouse/BF/GF?

It wouldn't take a special person for me to try 4Ed again. It would take a miracle for me to run it, though.

We had a new guy join our group late last year, and he expressed an interest in a 4Ed game.

I dutifully started statting out a Dragonborn- "Tommy Bahamut"- but before die one was tossed, we realized that nobody wanted to run the game.

So much for that.

 

[delericho]

What If?

What if it was a long standing gamer/poster you respected running the 4e game instead of a spouse/BF/GF?

If someone wants to run 4e for me, then I'll happily play. This actually applies to any game someone wants to run, even if someone is fool enough to want to run FATAL. I'll even promise not to moan about the system (whatever that is) while we're playing.

But I won't be buying any supplements for the game, unless it somehow turns into our 'regular' game, which I really don't see happening. Since I already have the PHB, that won't bring me back as a customer.

However, if I'm running the game, then I choose the game. (Sometimes, I'll give the players a choice, but that would be from a shortlist I put together.) Simply put, I'll do a better job running a game I want to run than one I don't particularly care for. So, if the whole group really want to play 4e, then that's fine... but someone else will need to run it.

 

[roguerouge]

For me, it's all about module support. I'm not getting burned out again. And one of WotC's weaknesses historically has been module-writing. Until there's consistently good 3PP module writing, I'm not DMing it, which is sad because I rather like the game play and my concerns are mostly with the implied world of certain of its rules (mooks, healing overnight).

 

[Psion]

With the 2010 releases of PHB3 and its "hybrid" multi-classed characters and the new "basic" beginners rules. Would you be willing to try it again? Have you already made your mind up about 4e?

As I disagree with the fundamental philosophy of 4e, I don't know why some new character options would repair that. Indeed, options glut (and "core-ization" of options) was one thing that turned me off to late 3e and seems to be central to 4e.

Magic in 4e is still uninspiring to me. Skills still lackluster. Skill challenges still laughably inflexible. And I still wince when I hear 4e fans talking about dailies etc.

And healing surges... oy. Even in 3e, I had to house rule in an injury system to make the wounds from a knock-down fight last. Hard coding transience of damage into the system was not what I wanted or needed.

And while 3e was never perfect, at least I could recognize the metasetting assumptions as being that my campaign was built around, but the 4e design team chose to scuttle that. So even the "leg up" that D&D had on any competing FRPG was gone.

And once you tear away from that (as Dannyacatraz says), it's just another FPRG to me, that has to sell itself on its own merits. As there are other FRPGs out there that fit my needs better, why would I really bother with D&D 4e any more?

Especially given there are highly suitable substitutes on the market now. Fantasy Craft is my FRPG of choice these days, and Pathfinder remains if I want something a bit more traditionally D&D. And beginner games? I think light games are over-rated; relating concepts that enthuses the players seems more important. Want to know what game I considered as an intro game for my 9 year old? Arcana Evolved, because it features fairies and animal people, but is otherwise highly playable with my D&D library.

News of the collectible features of the 4e Gamma World "setting" makes me even more fearful that D&D will never return to a path that I think of as fun.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

My boat sank. Or my horse threw a shoe. I don't remember which.

 

[Failed Saving Throw]

I've had a very rocky road with 4E so far. I've started no more than four published adventures, only to stop them after a session or two because they were just awful. Seekers of the Ashen Crown was the nail in the coffin for me ever trying to run a 4E module again. So I'm about to launch my own campaign. We'll see how it goes. If it flops I think I'm going to turn to Savage Worlds.

 

[Chainsaw]

With the 2010 releases of PHB3 and its "hybrid" multi-classed characters and the new "basic" beginners rules. Would you be willing to try it again? Have you already made your mind up about 4e?

Clearly this is a question for those that were turned off or disappointed by 4e.

I've played in ten six-hour sessions and six four-hour sessions of 4E, so about 80+ play hours. I have probably bought 6-8 books. There are some things I like, but I'm fairly disappointed so far overall. It's always possible that I've had a mediocre experience because my group's "doing it wrong," but I suspect the sytem's not totally innocent either. The six four-hour sessions were RPGA - with different DM's and different players each time.

I came in as someone who hadn't played RPG's for about 12 years, so I didn't really have strong biases one way or another at first, though I have developed some over the last year or so. I'd probably switch to OD&D, 1E, or 2E if I could get a game going.

The new hybrid rules and starter set are irrelevant.