Has the wave crested? (Bo9S)

[Nifft]

That thing about certain spells only going off at certain times of day?

That is freakin' AWESOME. The implications on a campaign world are extensive.

Word.

Seems to me that such limited effects would become Incantations (or Invocations or whatever you call magic that just takes a skill check, not a spell slot).

Plane Shift can only happen at Dawn.

Teleport can only happen at Noon. And you show up at Noon in your new location.

Shadow Walk? Dusk.

Cheers, -- N

 

[FireLance]

I think that's when I began to realize that the Vancian-style system wasn't so bad. In many ways, it was very clever and very well suited for gaming. Most people never realize it, though, because it has always been there for most gamers.

I'll be the first to admit that the Vancian-type system is very well suited for gaming. Its advantages are:

1. Every spell is a discrete, reasonably well defined (of course, there are exceptions ) effect, so it is usually quite clear what the spell does, and there is no element of putting the spell together from a variety of base effects on the fly. This speeds up spell resolution.

2. Less in-game tracking. Unlike spell point or fatigue systems, a player only needs to keep track of what spells he has left.

The major difference between a per day system and a per encounter system is how often your spells refresh, not the base characteristics of the Vancian system itself - whether a wizard spends an hour at the start of each day to prepare his full complement of 24 spells, or whether he spends fifteen minutes after each encounter to refresh his six spell slots.

In fact, from the perspective of point 2 (less in-game tracking) a per-encounter system requires less book-keeping on the part of the player.

Of course, there are some effects that may get out of hand under a per encounter system, but these can be managed by placing additional restrictions, e.g. longer casting times, time of day requirements, location requirements, xp/gp/action point costs, changing the effects of the spells, maybe even an explicit number of times per day restriction.

It seems to me that it would be better for the problem spells to balance themselves than to remain with a per day balance just to accomodate them. And, as mentioned, if you want to retain a per day balance, you can just multiply per encounter resources by the average number of encounters per day.

 

[Cadfan]

I like how dimension door at will is being used as an example of something game breaking.

I guess the Horizon Walker is way more powerful than I thought.

 

[DreadArchon]

I like how dimension door at will is being used as an example of something game breaking.

I suspect that there's a reason there have been no Dimension Door references for a while. (Blink Dog is even a suggested cohort option, after all).

But the thing I noticed that was some players (namely, the business majors and non-college students) never played mages anymore, because they were to intimidated by the nature of the power system, which you sort of had to court if you wanted to use magic under HERO.

What, only for mages? It took me over half an hour to make a simple spear, and I was using the computer-aided system. How disarmable is it? How obvious/concealable is it? How identifiable is it? How big is it? How much damage does it do? How does it interact with armor? How well can I throw it? How durable is it? Etc., etc., etc. And then I still had to determine how good I was with it...

 

[Psion]

What, only for mages? It took me over half an hour to make a simple spear, and I was using the computer-aided system. How disarmable is it? How obvious/concealable is it? How identifiable is it? How big is it? How much damage does it do? How does it interact with armor? How well can I throw it? How durable is it? Etc., etc., etc. And then I still had to determine how good I was with it...

Well, they weren't designing weapons, they were taking them from the book, which is pretty much the same as most modestly-detailed oriented games. They even had the martial arts system down, which really isn't any more complex than the array of combat feats in 3e.

Nope, the power system was where the biggest chunk of my players seemed to be unwilling or unable to deal with the system.

 

[DreadArchon]

Nope, the power system was where the biggest chunk of my players seemed to be unwilling or unable to deal with the system.

But aren't martial arts a function of the power system? I thought the basic premise was that the only difference between a circle kick and a fireball is the specific modifiers you buy for that power. (That there are a couple dozen such modifiers is what gives the system its diversity.)

 

[Psion]

But aren't martial arts a function of the power system? I thought the basic premise was that the only difference between a circle kick and a fireball is the specific modifiers you buy for that power. (That there are a couple dozen such modifiers is what gives the system its diversity.)

No. You can buy martial arts like multipowers, but there is a simpler system in place where a given fighting style is represented by a series of 3-5 point "maneuvers" with different modifiers. You might give them different names for different martial arts, but for the most part, they are pulled from a table of standard maneuvers. The Ultimate Martial Artist gives you a way to design your own maneuvers, but that still stands apart from the power system.

(Maneuvers are technically skills and can actually be pulled into the power system if the GM so desires. But as with most skills, you don't see it much and it's ripe for abuse if you allow it.)

 

[WizarDru]

That thing about certain spells only going off at certain times of day?

That is freakin' AWESOME. The implications on a campaign world are extensive. If you set it up that way in D&D, though, you'd probably have to drop the level of the limited spells, and then introduce higher level versions that ignore the restriction. Say, you could have a 3rd level teleport spell that functions once per day at midnight or sundown or whatever, and then maybe an 8th level one that works whenever.

Think of the impact of teleporting deep into enemy territory, and then not having an easy escape for a day- having to hold off enemies until you can cast your spell again. And they'd be aware of it, too, so it would just become more and more tense.

Quality gaming.

Agreed. I really like the campaign-specific implications of such a magic system, particularly in the culutural and gameplay ramifications. You can carry the idea quite a ways. Midnight becomes the 'Hour of Cowards" or sunrise becomes the time when wizards "Step into the Sun". Monarchs never rise early, as they stay up late with their guardsmen to defend against the potential of a midnight attack by their enemies during wartime.

The idea could even be extended further, with certain colleges functioning better at certain times. And a potential massive shakeup might occur during a lunar or solar eclipse, with the laws of magic changing (or perhpas changing between two events).

There's lots to love in that concept, frankly.