WotC Hasbro Bets Big on D&D

Alzrius · Dec 10, 2022

If WotC really wants to monetize D&D more, maybe they'll start publishing novels again? I mean on their own, rather than cutting deals with Penguin Random House; based on what we've heard, that was a lot of what kept TSR going back in the day, and they turned out quite a few bestsellers in the process, along with nurturing some great new talent (which they admittedly had trouble keeping).

MichaelSomething · Dec 10, 2022

I can't blame people who mistrust megacorps. Given the choice between, "make a great game for ten dollars" or "throw all the EnWorlders into a volcano for eleven dollars" too many executives would pick the latter over the former.

Oofta · Dec 10, 2022

If they hold back half the dragons from a new book or start the book-a-month club like 4E* then that's an issue. But while many of the books they've been publishing haven't been for me (it's a big market!) they still seem to be high quality.

Transformers was a pretty huge cash cow for HASBRO for quite a while. I don't have a problem with them doing much the same for D&D as long as they don't f*** up the core product. But there's no indication that the cash cow they're hoping to milk will be directly from the RPG side of things. Movies? TV? Action figures? Costumes? Go for it!

*I hate using 4E as a poster child for this because it has nothing to do with the version of the game but they did repeat some of TSR's mistakes of flooding the market.

Whizbang Dustyboots · Dec 10, 2022

Scribe said:
Yes.

To state it as PLAINLY as possible.

1. Hasbro, makes staggering profits. The infographic (screenshot) people seemingly cannot understand makes it pretty obvious.
2. MtG has been 'monetized' to the point of them selling what are essentially proxy (fake) cards, at over $1000 USD for 4 packs of cards. "Monetization" they want to bring to D&D.
3. Hasbro, owner of Wizards, supplier of MtG and D&D, now wants to "Monetize" and extract MORE profit.

Nobody is saying they cannot make a profit. I am saying they simply desire more, and yes, its rampant corporate greed.

If you have to explain your point this many times, I think it's worth considering that your point is unclear. It's still not plain to me.

Yes, WotC makes lots of money and want to make more -- this was a call for investors, and more money is why they invest. This isn't an opinion, it's an agreed-upon fact.

The part where I think people are confused is what you're saying about this. Should there be a cap on how much money they make? Is it offensive for a publicly traded company to maximize profits? Is it that a desire for more profits inevitably leads to the worst possible behavior? Those are all arguments you might be advancing, but it's not clear which, if any of them, is your point.

Whizbang Dustyboots · Dec 10, 2022

MichaelSomething said:
I can't blame people who mistrust megacorps. Given the choice between, "make a great game for ten dollars" or "throw all the EnWorlders into a volcano for eleven dollars" too many executives would pick the latter over the former.

Well, you have to see how much it would cost to toss everyone into a volcano. There's transportation and catapult costs to consider.

Whizbang Dustyboots · Dec 10, 2022

Alzrius said:
If WotC really wants to monetize D&D more, maybe they'll start publishing novels again? I mean on their own, rather than cutting deals with Penguin Random House; based on what we've heard, that was a lot of what kept TSR going back in the day, and they turned out quite a few bestsellers in the process, along with nurturing some great new talent (which they admittedly had trouble keeping).

The book market is very different today. WotC has tried books a number of times and then shut most of the process down in the 4E era. (I'm not sure if they directly publish the Young Adventurers Guides or not.)

As I said up-thread, I'd love to see the novels come back, with a commitment to substantially improved quality, but it would not surprise me if the business model just doesn't work any more.

Dire Bare · Dec 10, 2022

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I think they need the novels back -- but, heresy time -- they need to stop letting it be a vanity press for folks who couldn't get a publishing deal otherwise (which is a large portion of who's written game fiction, historically). They need to bring in a celebrity editor like GRRM (who does a lot of this) or Neil Gaiman and have them recruit better writers to work on this stuff.

The D&D novels shouldn't be ones where outsiders look askance at you for reading them which is (again, sorry for the heresy) most of the novels published to date.

The previous novels can be enjoyable and no one is a bad person for having enjoyed them, but the quality has held them back over the years. Hasbro has the resources and ambition to do better and expand the brand. If they do novels again, they should go much, much bigger.

I can't help myself . . . . .

HERETIC!!!!

The TSR/WotC D&D novel business, at its height, was BIG. It didn't get that way because most of the novels were crap. Cheese and crackers . . . .

Most of the novels were pretty good, some were amazingly good. Some were crap. Roughly the same percentage as the general fantasy/sci-fi novel landscape. And the D&D novel line was in no way a "vanity press". I'm rolling my eyes right out of my head over this one. A "vanity press" is when an author pays the publisher to publish their work, because no one will otherwise. TSR/WotC worked with a variety of professional writers and paid them . . . many were well established and well liked writers, others were in the game design industry. Many went on to decent careers as writers post-D&D novels.

I find it ironic in a thread where some folks are pushing back against the negative, toxic, "sky-is-falling" types, that you would bring up these overwrought, unfair, and inaccurate criticisms of the D&D novel line.

There. I'm done. Whew.

darjr · Dec 10, 2022

There was a time when the TSR novel publishing branch stood among the biggest fantasy/scifi publishers. Invented a whole new style of novel really.

Those are facts irrespective of what anyone thinks of their content or quality.

I think Novels ARE a part of the D&D strategy now, just not actually publishing them themselves.

Dire Bare · Dec 10, 2022

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
The book market is very different today. WotC has tried books a number of times and then shut most of the process down in the 4E era. (I'm not sure if they directly publish the Young Adventurers Guides or not.)

As I said up-thread, I'd love to see the novels come back, with a commitment to substantially improved quality, but it would not surprise me if the business model just doesn't work any more.

The "Young Adventurers Guides" are licensed. The only remaining novels, Salvatore's "Dark Elf" series are also now licensed, although they used to be directly published first by TSR and then later by WotC.

The novel line started with "Dragons of Autumn Twilight" in 1984 and exploded, running strong until about 2010 when it started to slow. Dropped to a drip by 2013, with a brief try at a revival with "The Sundering" series, but soon ceased altogether by late 2016, with the exception of Salvatore's Drizzt novels, which continue to do well. There wasn't really a number of tries, things were going well, until they weren't. Unless you are counting the "Endless Quest" game books. Those stopped and started a number of times.

A 32-year run isn't half bad.

WotC now, under license, is ramping up their YA novel line with the "Dungeon Academy" series, and soon "Dungeon Club". There are some movie tie-in novels forthcoming . . . . beyond that, we'll see.

Why? What happened to rather suddenly kill the D&D novel line? Was it the readers moving on to something else? Or something else? Could the line become profitable again? I have no idea on any of these questions, and would love to hear from somebody who actually knows, from an insider's perspective.

Clint_L · Dec 10, 2022

Scribe said:
Yes.

To state it as PLAINLY as possible.

1. Hasbro, makes staggering profits. The infographic (screenshot) people seemingly cannot understand makes it pretty obvious.
2. MtG has been 'monetized' to the point of them selling what are essentially proxy (fake) cards, at over $1000 USD for 4 packs of cards. "Monetization" they want to bring to D&D.
3. Hasbro, owner of Wizards, supplier of MtG and D&D, now wants to "Monetize" and extract MORE profit.

Nobody is saying they cannot make a profit. I am saying they simply desire more, and yes, its rampant corporate greed.

"Corporate greed" is a bit of an difficult term to understand. Are you alleging that trying to maximize profits is in itself unethical? Because that is the basis of capitalism. I would argue that trying to maximize profits is a necessity or someone else will come in and do it for you. It's only an issue if its done in an unethical way, or if it's a poor long term strategy. With regards to D&D, WotC has not proposed anything I see as unethical, and their long term strategy for D&D (getting away from the old "editions" model and trying to diversify) makes sense to me.

I actually see the old "editions" model of D&D as exploitative of their most hard-core fans and borderline unethical, so I think OneD&D represents ethical progress.

Also, I am curious that you are focusing on 2021 profits but it is open news that they have experienced serious setbacks in 2022. That is literally what the fireside chat was addressing. It seems like you are cherry-picking the evidence that supports your thesis and ignoring the evidence that doesn't.

My thoughts on this are simple: is Hasbro proposing something that I see as ethically dubious for D&D, or that will cost me a bunch of money? No, I don't. Therefore, I'm not fussed about what I am hearing. If something comes up that bugs me, then my position might change, but thus far they seem to have done a good job with the game I love playing.