D&D 5E Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks Would Like To Explore Kara-Tur

According to Reddit poster bwrusso, who was in a small group investor meeting with Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks last week, Hasbro's CEO (who was previously President of Wizards of the Coast before being promoted to his current position) currently plays in a Kara-Tur campaign and would personally like to see that setting explored further.

Kara-Tur is part of the Forgotten Realms, and is inspired by real-world East and Southeast Asia cultures, including China, Japan, Mongolia, and other regions. It was originally published in the 1985 book Oriental Adventures, and has since appeared in other formats including a boxed set in 1988. Eight adventure modules for the setting were published in the late 80s. In 2015's Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Kara-Tur is briefly described.

Cocks also touched on Spanish-language translations of D&D books in Latin America, and indicated that there were distribution issues with former licensing agreements in that region.

 

[Mecheon]

I guess I would ask: why is it wrong to sell people products that cater to fans of “pulp orientalism?”

Given pulp orientalism is, y'know, the older stuff, its generally considered as regularly slipping into downright offensive.

Folks don't tend to like things that are offensive, and folks who buy things intended to offend others aren't exactly what I'd call a good audience to focus on

Now we have pretty much declared that a forbidden kind of fun. Or, at least, it is forbidden to sell products catering to the desire to play in Asia-as-imagined-by-Westerners.

We were hyping up Tian Xia up-thread. Kara-Tur is just, not good in this day and age.

 

[Yenrak]

A few thoughts about playing in a fantasy version of pre-colonization Americas.

1. It could be really fun to explore a world informed by the rich cultural and mythological background of pre-Colombian Americas. There’s so much variety and diversity between, say, the Iroquois and the Incas that it almost cries out for fantasy exploration. Would be especially fun in a world in which magic is real, there are gods that demand human sacrifice, and the land isn’t just sacred in the minds of people but actually a magical force.
2. What to do about “contact?” I think contact in the form of meeting the Vikings or whatever fantasy version of them would be less problematic. There’s a long standing question of whether Vikings somehow made it to Mexico and were incorporated into Aztec mythology. That probably never happened in real life but why couldn’t Thor have visited the fantasy Americas?
3. There’s probably no need to actually re-enact colonization by Spain and Portugal or England and France. Those events unfolded in our historical context later than most D&D medieval/early Renaissance settings imply. Perhaps there is early contact but the later colonization is much more modern than most D&D. Arthur’s knights didn’t colonize North America.
4. Are there people who want to play “conquistadors” or colonists? There might be. It wouldn’t really be my thing. I’d be more interested in playing indigenous characters in a pre-Colombian setting. But explorers like John Smith (of Pocohantas fame) might really interest some players. And I know that some of my friends from South America have expressed interest in playing Spanish conquistadors because this is part of their heritage. If the table is okay with this, I’m not sure it should be forbidden. If there’s a market for products (not sure there is, to be honest), is it okay for Hasbro to sell products catering to this?
5. What would have happened in a world in which the technological advantages of the Europeans mattered less because magic is real. Would the gunpowder and canons of the Spanish have been able to defeat the magic of Aztec priests who could call upon their gods? What’s the morality of portraying a fantasy America that would not have been vulnerable to conquest by a fantasy Europe?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

You should realise there are several risks about certain threats from the real life. For example a Taiwanese publishes in DMGuild a jianhu D&D adventure about an invasion by the formians. We can think it has been written with the maximal respect for the Chinese culture, because this author is from Taiwan, but.... there is a phone ring to WotC because somebody feels "offended" formians as antagonists. How, why? Easy, the formians from this adventures could be.. an allegory about an army of a nation from our real life. You can understand what I mean, can't you?

Or somebody writtes a story about somebody with noble birth who is killed in a palace intrigue and then she is reincarnated into a korokoburu, and in her new life she only wants to farm and enjoy her family. It could sounds totally innocent, but really it is a hidden satire against the classist/elitist modern society and its social darwinism where the elites are only toxic predators, not true leaders.

Other point is we are in 2024 and it is totally from 80's. We are in the age of internet, and now the soft power by Asian nations work in other way. You can read webcomics and webnovels, or play videogames.



Or the cultural differences nobody realises. For example we are used in our Western culture the confrotation between different members of the team, and here we learn to use social skills to reach an agreement and find a solution, but in other places the main goal is the "harmony" and then when the boss orders, everybody obeys, because nobody wants discord in the team.

* We shouldn't be too surprised if somebody creates a mash-up mixing Kara-Tur and "(Adventures in) Rokugan/Legend of the Five Rings" or even this published as 3PP in D&D Beyond (but the "new" classes may cause a lot of work).

 

[camelotcrusade]

That would be fun. I had some of the 2e Kara-tur stuff and we had a good time with it. It was fodder for the imagination like everything else.

Looking back though, some of it reminds me of when my grandmother asked me whether Koreans ate Japanese or Chinese food. Based on what I learned, I think the answer is "Yes."

 

[occam]

One historical difficulty is that a lot of people who wanted to play D&D in an Asian-themed setting were not looking to play in a historically or even mythologically accurate version of the continent. They wanted to play the tropes, adventure through a world that largely existed in the western imagination. They were inspired by what is known as Orientalism.

I reject this as a description of my experience, and of Kara-Tur in general. When I was young, I wasn't reading Marco Polo, I was watching Godzilla, The Seven Samurai, or The Five Venoms. Kurosawa or the Shaw Brothers weren't engaging in Orientalism; they were making products for local Asian markets that later found audiences in the US and elsewhere. Tropes of East Asian fantasy such as dueling kung fu masters, noble samurai, and kaiju were established in Asia itself by Asian creators, and were appreciated on their own terms around the world (after translation.

And it's clear that Zeb Cook and others working with him held a deep appreciation for their source material, and engaged in research to bring a lot of East Asian history and folklore into Kara-Tur that was outside the scope of what was familiar to their mostly-American readers. Are there some things that should be updated for a modern readership? Sure, but wholesale changes aren't required, unless thinly veiled fantasy versions of historical Asian nations and faiths just aren't your thing. I don't see more recent settings such as Rokugan, Kaidan, or Tian Xia as exhibiting vast improvements in terms of cultural sensitivity over what was done in the mid-80s with Kara-Tur.

 

[Farenn]

Yes, you came across as rude.

Sorry you feel that way, but I am just stating how you came across.

And no, I don't think it's hard or that they would need a "small army of Asian content creators". I just think they should hire a couple of East Asian authors and cultural consultants and actually hear what they have to say instead of doing it as a performative safeguard against criticism.

There you go again with saying that WotC should hire cultural consultants and actually hear what they have to say. Why wouldn't they hear what they have to say? I seem to remember that WotC in the not too distant past put out Journeys through the Radiant Citadel which was done by a very ethnically diverse group and the end product was good. So, I am not sure why you seem to think that they would hire cultural consultants and just ignore them. How about instead of making assumptions about people, you instead do the wait and see approach.

 

[bedir than]

The more I think about, the more they should just go with some multi-ethnic Singapore-like city except turn up some aspects of it.

I think I could write a decent essay that shows Radiant Citadel is fantasy Singapore

 

[MNblockhead]

I guess I would ask: why is it wrong to sell people products that cater to fans of “pulp orientalism?”

Is that just the wrong kind of fun for people to have? Why?

A very fine answer to this, by the way, is that it is insensitive and hurtful to people or that a lot of the pulp orientalism is too racist.

When you are targeting a very broad audience you are simply going to run into more potential flashpoints that will upset segments of your consumer base. For example, I think there is a place for historical TTRPGs. Similarly, if you want to play a historical WWII wargame, you are not evil for playing the axis units. But large segments of potential customers just don't want to play in settings with historical limitation and real-world issues, or just don't enjoy playing the bad guys, especially if modeled on real-life history. This is less about bad-wrong-fun and more about market share.

One of the great wins of the OGL-controversy was that enough of 5e is under a creative commons license. Third party publishers can take greater risks without worry about WotC being able to censor their use of the open gaming content. My answer to most people who complain about official WotC settings is to look to third-party publishers.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think one could make a great setting using the smaller MtG sets as various continents and locations of the same world.

• The Flying Capitol of Ravnica
• The Shattered Lands of Zendikar, floating right under Ravnica in the debris left when the land was raised to flee the Eldrazi.
• On the ground floor you have Kamigawa, Tarkir, The Land of Mountain and Sea, Innistrad, Ixalan, Kaldheim, the fey realm of Eldrain beyond the magical woods of Llorwyn etc

This would allow RL inspires realms to be integrated into a whole setting without being bolted on a already existing world.

 

[Mecheon]

And it's clear that Zeb Cook and others working with him held a deep appreciation for their source material, and engaged in research to bring a lot of East Asian history and folklore into Kara-Tur that was outside the scope of what was familiar to their mostly-American readers. Are there some things that should be updated for a modern readership? Sure, but wholesale changes aren't required, unless thinly veiled fantasy versions of historical Asian nations and faiths just aren't your thing.

Wholescale changes are absolutely required, because Kara-Tur wasn't designed for FR at all, and doesn't fit with the standard ideaes of Faerun in the first place. It stands out and not in a good way. It doesn't fit in the world.

A kingdom where magic is rare and exciting to the point an anti-flying charm is all you need to make a city into a seemingly inassailable fortress that'd take an army (because once again, KT was written as low magic) doesn't make sense on the same landmass as, y'know, all the standard Faerun stuff we have. A single Spelljammer port that has never been followed up on in anything does not fix its many issues, to say nothing of the fact that ever KT area is "Not-(country)" in a way that places in Faerun simply aren't.

It needs to be rewritten as a place that actually makes sense in Faerun, not just dredged up and we all pretend there's a glass dome out past Zakhara that somehow prevents cross-culture contact