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D&D 5E Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks Would Like To Explore Kara-Tur

Hasbro CEO plays in an Eastern Adventures D&D campaign.

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According to Reddit poster bwrusso, who was in a small group investor meeting with Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks last week, Hasbro's CEO (who was previously President of Wizards of the Coast before being promoted to his current position) currently plays in a Kara-Tur campaign and would personally like to see that setting explored further.

Kara-Tur is part of the Forgotten Realms, and is inspired by real-world East and Southeast Asia cultures, including China, Japan, Mongolia, and other regions. It was originally published in the 1985 book Oriental Adventures, and has since appeared in other formats including a boxed set in 1988. Eight adventure modules for the setting were published in the late 80s. In 2015's Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Kara-Tur is briefly described.

Cocks also touched on Spanish-language translations of D&D books in Latin America, and indicated that there were distribution issues with former licensing agreements in that region.
 

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vecna00

Speculation Specialist Wizard
This thread got really weird. Can we go back to "yay, more stuff!" again?
Yay, more stuff, indeed!

Also, I remember they were working on two new settings that seem to be off the docket. My guess is they didn't make the cut. Not sure how far along they got, but I'd be interested in seeing what they were working on.

Honestly, I think we can have both new stuff and updated old stuff.
 



pawsplay

Hero
I'm very aware of korpokkur, but, y'know, myths where a gnome-like being described as beautiful have a biiiiit of a stretch that they ended up as bow legged, scraggly bearded, noted-in-game-text as looked down on caricture of a race


I do not care about player stat regularity on this, I care about them out and about in the world. Given we're, once again, talking about a place in Faerun with its numerous locations where even Thri-kreen have their roaving bands, KT seems absolutely lacking given 'comfortable in human society' needs to be a thing. There should absolutely be non-human societies around given there are tons of non-human societies elsewhere. Humans shouldn't be the only societies. That alone makes the place not feel like its part of FR

If spirit folk are matter-of-factly members of human society, they aren't rare.

Korobokkuru are fairly rare, but hengeyokai don't seem to me. And you're ignoring lots of creatures like bakemono which are numerous and do have their own societies. They are a type of goblin. Simply lacking elves and typical dwarves does not mean the region can't fit into FR. There are plenty of people who are mostly clustered in one area. For instance, tabaxi are pretty rare in the Dalelands.

Hooves are not the defining feature of a kirin? The whole not being covered in scales alone thing is a clear sign this isn't one. I have a mechanical robot kirin on my desk that turns into a cube and its clearly more kirin than that. That is clearly not a scaled, horned horse-like celestial being in the slightest, Its probably "Apply fu-creature template to horse" or something like that, given the lion mane and slightly horrifying teeth situation

Is a fu template creature a traditional Chinese folkloric monster?

I have never seen a fu dog or similar creature depicted with hooves.

So, maybe this samurai is riding some other kind of not real world magical creature. It's clearly not a horse or an elk, though.

Well, maybe we should just. Drop the racism entirely, go back to the original myth, and make 'em a gnome or halfling variant given we don't need to slap "Oh yeah its a dwarf but out east" on things any more like the most dull, bored reskinning ever?

Whether you they are gnomes or dwarves doesn't change too much about them. Or you could just say they were something else. I think they were described as dwarves because they are fairly tough, and because the writers wanted to be clear Western dwarves were not in the region, and the dwarfs there were disconnected from what most D&D players thought of as dwarves.

But conceptually, I would say they are more like gnomes.

The setting needs changes and given it was done in the 'being narrated by someone from the region' you can easily go "Yeah that person was wrong and lying, here's a better look", which also helps given OA's other many, many issues as brought up by other parties why just keeping it as-is is a terrible idea. The setting needs to be changed, especially in a day and age I can just, send a message to any number of folks in east Asia and get some recommendations on appropriate fantasy in ten seconds

Oh, it needs changes, for sure. For one thing, Kara-Tur looks suspiciously like a fantasy setting where the Japanese were successful in conquering Korea and northern China. Which, if you know a little history, is likely to rub some people the wrong way.

The main issue, IMO, is that Kara-Tur ignores a lot of the "creator myth" stuff surrounding humans, elves, dwarves, and so forth in FR. But that's a problem with FR, not Kara-Tur. FR is already a multi-dimensional setting, so having primordial "dwarven gods" and "elven gods" is already pretty weird.

The main world-building issue is that Kara-Tur doesn't seem to have the buffer regions that separate Chinese culture, and the northern and east Asian regions, from the West in the real world. I'm not aware of a FR Himalayas, or a FR "India" that is as populous, diverse, and powerful as real world India, or a FR Thailand, or Turkmen. Not that I would want to copy these nations exactly, but I think you want a smooth transition from FR-Europe to FR-Mediterranean to FR-Indo-Persia to FR-Eastern Asian regions.

Most of the existing FR regisions I would say are somewhat reminscent of those places are heavily exoticized. Again, it's not Kara-Tur I see as the problem, but a general lack of thoughtful world-building, and a lot of falling back on Orientalist tropes. FR has problems with "barbarian" tropes as well, but in general, is more dignified when it comes to obvious Europea parallels.
 

Yenrak

Explorer
I reject this as a description of my experience, and of Kara-Tur in general. When I was young, I wasn't reading Marco Polo, I was watching Godzilla, The Seven Samurai, or The Five Venoms. Kurosawa or the Shaw Brothers weren't engaging in Orientalism; they were making products for local Asian markets that later found audiences in the US and elsewhere. Tropes of East Asian fantasy such as dueling kung fu masters, noble samurai, and kaiju were established in Asia itself by Asian creators, and were appreciated on their own terms around the world (after translation.

And it's clear that Zeb Cook and others working with him held a deep appreciation for their source material, and engaged in research to bring a lot of East Asian history and folklore into Kara-Tur that was outside the scope of what was familiar to their mostly-American readers. Are there some things that should be updated for a modern readership? Sure, but wholesale changes aren't required, unless thinly veiled fantasy versions of historical Asian nations and faiths just aren't your thing. I don't see more recent settings such as Rokugan, Kaidan, or Tian Xia as exhibiting vast improvements in terms of cultural sensitivity over what was done in the mid-80s with Kara-Tur.
Here are good points and I stand corrected.
 

Have you guys checked out the 5E Adventures in Rokugan? It is an amazing setting and system, different then the old hyper-political ROkugan but not by much, with culture consulstants, original classes, great spells, monsters, races, all of it. If you want Kara-Tur for 5E, you cannot go wrong trying out Adventures in Rokugan.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Chapter 18 by Kellynn Wee in "Fifty Years of Dungeons and Dragons" (D&D General - Fifty Years of Dungeons & Dragons, collection of essays published by MIT Press ) is on D&D in Singapore and had a few things that felt relevant.

Quite a bit of the chapter is about how southeast Asian stories are/should be/could be told, with examples of some local campaigns that do it in different ways and of trying to decide which myths and histories to focus on. One quote that seemed relevant to some things above about who should produce materials occurs early on:
"Yet - even when one is careful about an essentialist approach to cultural and national identity -these attempts at making room for nonwhite players and creators still often feature the diasporic Asian experience, which differs from the experience of the Southeast Asia player." (pg. 284)

Tangentially, a regular discussion on ENWorld is about the power level of characters. Related to that, I'd never heard of xianxia before:
"[Drawing] from Dan Li's work, wuxia is a Chinese literary genre that features a noble warrior (the eponymous xia) who cultivates their martial arts skills (wu) through a process of arduous self-making, usually set in a quasi-historical ancient China. Xianxia, on the other hand, is a more contemporary interpretation of wuxia; xian implies a transcendent hero or an immortal, not merely a warrior, and in general the genre incorporates a high-fantasy approach to magic, gods, demons, and the supernatural." (pg. 292)

In any case, for those interested in issues about expanding the game beyond faux-European fantasy, I think this chapter might be interesting to read if your library, for example, has a copy. (I didn't see a way to get just the chapter, the book in e-form or hard copy is $35 US).
 
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I reject this as a description of my experience, and of Kara-Tur in general. When I was young, I wasn't reading Marco Polo, I was watching Godzilla, The Seven Samurai, or The Five Venoms. Kurosawa or the Shaw Brothers weren't engaging in Orientalism; they were making products for local Asian markets that later found audiences in the US and elsewhere.
Are you familiar with the history of the term Orientalism?
 

For example, I think there is a place for historical TTRPGs. Similarly, if you want to play a historical WWII wargame, you are not evil for playing the axis units.
I'm Jewish and members of my family were killed by Nazis in the 40s. Some of them were deported by Mussolini's forces to the death camps. You are a giant piece of **** if you play any kind of Axis character in an RPG.

Mod Edit: Language. ~Umbran
 
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