Hasbro CEO Cocks and Execs Sued for Alleged Securities Violations

[SkidAce]

I can't help but look at your three points and wonder what that has to do with the secondary market. Maybe I have the wrong idea of what makes up the secondary market because what you describe above is what I think of as the regular market. The producer sells the packaged cards to the distributor, the distributor sells to the retailer, and the retailer sells to the consumer. If my retail store is selling individual cards or I'm selling my individual cards, that's part of the secondary market.

Exactly.

But I'm only buying from the retailer if I think what I bought will have value.

I.e.

Box set costs $50, between playing and random distribution of cards I get $50+ value, I keep buying from retailer.

If because of overprinting or whatever, the value I get from buying a $50 set is only $25 bucks, then I buy less from the retailer, who will order less from distributer, who will order less from the producer.

WotC loses money.

 

[trappedslider]

You previously said none were. That's not at all what the article you linked says. It specifically names two that are fully translated into Arena, and the only set it names that isn't is Spider-Man - which is exactly what I said.

i'm allowed to be mistaken aren't i?

I amended my statement to "not all" after finding the article and being mistaken.

 

[Staffan]

Exactly.

But I'm only buying from the retailer if I think what I bought will have value.

I.e.

Box set costs $50, between playing and random distribution of cards I get $50+ value, I keep buying from retailer.

If because of overprinting or whatever, the value I get from buying a $50 set is only $25 bucks, then I buy less from the retailer, who will order less from distributer, who will order less from the producer.

WotC loses money.

In a reasonable system, the value you get from the cards you buy is in the enjoyment you get from playing with them. That's how toys work. Any secondary market value is beside the point, and in the ideal world it would be 0 and Wizards would keep reprinting cards to reach that level.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In a reasonable system, the value you get from the cards you buy is in the enjoyment you get from playing with them. That's how toys work. Any secondary market value is beside the point, and in the ideal world it would be 0 and Wizards would keep reprinting cards to reach that level.

I think there's a strong argument for this not being a reasonable system.

 

[Scribe]

In a reasonable system, the value you get from the cards you buy is in the enjoyment you get from playing with them. That's how toys work. Any secondary market value is beside the point, and in the ideal world it would be 0 and Wizards would keep reprinting cards to reach that level.

This ignores the entire history of the very much working ecosystem of Magic, like 'this worked for decades' kind of thing with year after year of success.

Reprinting cards until they are worth essentially the cost of the paper, is a great way to kill the game, or everyone just goes digital, and 'oops no more FLGS'.

 

[MGibster]

Here in the United States, we've got the business judgement rule. It's the legal principal the protects executives from liabilities for good faith decisions in regards to running the company. Unless the plaintiff is able to make a case for malfeasance such as insider trading, a breach of fiduciary responsibility, unfair trade practices, etc., etc. As long the executives acted in good faith believing their actions are for the good of the company, a judge is unlikely to second guess them. Whatever relationship Hasbro/WotC has to the secondary market does not rise to the level of malfeasance.

I'm more interested in whether Hasbro is being misleading by hiding how much of the company is propped up by Magic sales.

 

[Umbran]

This one really, really confuses me. What specifically is Hasbro's concern with the secondary market for Magic cards?

I expect someone said so in the prior pages, but...

Hopes for gains in the secondary market help drive the primary market. The secondary market makes buying cards more like an investment than an entertainment expenditure. If you flood the market, the secondary market collapses, and people can't recover any spending they did.

Like, back in the day, I financed a good chunk of my honeymoon with a Black Lotus.

 

[SkidAce]

I expect someone said so in the prior pages, but...

Hopes for gains in the secondary market help drive the primary market. The secondary market makes buying cards more like an investment than an entertainment expenditure. If you flood the market, the secondary market collapses, and people can't recover any spending they did.

Like, back in the day, I financed a good chunk of my honeymoon with a Black Lotus.

I could have to, if I had thought to stop playing with it.

 

[Umbran]

I could have to, if I had thought to stop playing with it.

I was never a competitive player. I just played with my friends for fun, so when they stopped, I stopped.

 

[Staffan]

I expect someone said so in the prior pages, but...

Hopes for gains in the secondary market help drive the primary market. The secondary market makes buying cards more like an investment than an entertainment expenditure. If you flood the market, the secondary market collapses, and people can't recover any spending they did.

Like, back in the day, I financed a good chunk of my honeymoon with a Black Lotus.

See, that's the kind of thing I dislike. I mean, I'm happy you got a honeymoon off a Black Lotus, but to me speculative trading is inherently a bad thing and particularly so with things that are supposed to be for fun. I would love if Wizards switched over to an LCG model with Magic instead – that would make for a much more accessible game. They could still do collector boosters with fancy versions of cards for those who like that kind of thing, but speculative trading is inherently parasitic.

It's really the same thing as when people oppose new housing being built because they fear it will drive down the market price of their house (well, except for housing being a necessity and games being a luxury). That's the whole point.