Haste and Refocus

[Drawmack]

The second sentence is not flavor. Normally a full-round action still allows a 5' correction. The second sentence states that refocusing causes the loss of even your 5' correction. Therefor I would rule that the implication is that hasted or not when you refocus that is all that you do. However I would allow the hasted character to ask one question about the DMs tactics whose answer could reasonably be discerned from looking at the opponents as he would be able to take in more in the round. For example which monsters and most probably going to keep running next round?

 

[The Souljourner]

So then you have to refocus your thoughts and appraise the situation? Would you say that requires an appraise check? The second sentance is most definitely flavor text. No where does it say you cannot take a 5' step. "Do nothing" is not something that's defined in the D&D rules. They would specify that you can't take any actions or a 5' step until your next turn. They don't, therefore you can. WoTC needs to use a system for showing what's rules text and what's flavor text.

Besides, the point is moot, you can just cast a full round spell and take your hasted action for this turn after the spell completes next round, cast a quickened spell for this round during the haste partial action, then start your next turn with a spell, quickened spell, and haste partial action spell.

-The Souljourner

 

[Teleri_mm]

Haste says very clearly you can take a partial action before or after your normal action for that turn. With that in mind I can see no reason why someone can not take their hasted partial action and then during their normal action decide to delay. If the person decided to take the haste action after their turn they would have to wait till AFTER their turn… which would be after they are done delaying.

Just my thoughts.

Teleri_mm

 

[daemonslye]

Teleri_mm - I think we are discussing "Refocus" as opposed
to "Delay". I believe they are two different concepts.

Souljourner - Thanks for the response. Just keep in mind
that, with Refocus you lose a partial+quickened before the
enemy reacts:

WITHOUT USING HASTED REFOCUS:

(round starts)
- Enemy standard+MEA (enemy wins init)
- You partial+standard+MEA+free
(new round)
- Enemy standard+MEA (enemy reacts before your next turn)
- You partial+standard+MEA+free

WITH HASTED REFOCUS
(round starts)
- Enemy standard+MEA (enemy wins init)
- You partial+free+REFOCUS
(new round)
- You partial+standard+MEA+free
- Enemy standard+MEA (enemy reacts AFTER your next turn)

Net result - with refocus you gain a free+partial before
your enemy reacts next.

~D

 

[Zerth]

Lets say you lost initiative but are hasted (before the round started). Can you take your partial action first then use your
standard+move to refocus for next round thus gaining a net
benefit of an extra partial before your opponent may react?

The answer is no. When you refocus you can't do anything else during that turn, not even a 5-foot step. Haste gives you an extra partial action each round, but it doesn't give you any "extra" round during your turn. The basic rules stay unchanged - a full round action still takes a full round's time to complete.

If you dont believe me go check the latest FAQ. The new additions handle mostly haste issues.

 

[Drawmack]

But WotC does have a means of seperating the rules from the fluff. The rules are in the SRD and the fluff is not. Here is what the SRD has to say

Refocus (no move) [Full][AoO: No]
Description: Refocus is a full-round action during which a character cannot move. The character moves up in the initiative count and is positioned as though it had rolled a 20 on the initiative check. Other modifiers (such as for Dexterity and for the Improved Initiative feat) also apply to this roll of 20 when determining the new initiative check result.

It states right here and very clearly that you are not allowed any movement with the refocus by the no move in parenthensis. It also does not ensure that you go first in the next round, it acts as though you rolled a 20. Therefor the opponent could still beat you. So you quite possibly gain nothing but loose an action by doing this. On top of that you provoke an AoO by doing it.

 

[kreynolds]

The second sentence is not flavor. Normally a full-round action still allows a 5' correction. The second sentence states that refocusing causes the loss of even your 5' correction.

No, it doesn't say that. It states that you can't move. A 5-foot step is an adjustment, not a move. So, if you insist that the second sentence is not flavor, then you are in fact allowed to take a 5-foot step (adjustment), as per the rules.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Haste and Refocus

When you refocus you can't do anything else during that turn, not even a 5-foot step.

A 5-foot step is not a move.

 

[daemonslye]

Zerth - Thanks for the pointer!

MainFAQv10252002 p.46

If a character receives a haste spell, she gets an extra
partial action on her turn. Do movement options that are
limited "per turn" apply over the whole turn, or should
they be interpreted to be on a per-action basis? For
example, can a hasted person do the following:
• Make a standard move, and then take a partial
attack action with normal 5-foot step (as per
Table 8-3)?
• Make a double move, and then a partial attack,
without suffering an attack of opportunity in the
initial square of movement?
• Make a standard charge and then partial move in
a different direction?

No to all. Haste gives you an extra partial action each round.
It doesn't let you break the rules otherwise, and it does not give
you an “extra” round during your turn.
If you move during your turn, you cannot also take a 5-foot
step, haste notwithstanding.
If you start your turn in a threatened space and you leave that
space, you provoke an attack of opportunity when you leave
unless you do nothing else during the rest of your turn except
move, haste notwithstanding.
When you charge, all your movement during the round must
be in a straight line and in the same direction, haste
notwithstanding.

Well, after a bit of careful reading, this seems to focus on
movement actions.

Question: Is using your standard+MEA = to a full round
action? Refocus is a "full round action" correct? I don't
believe there are "special full round actions" contained in
the rules? So - I don't believe that this use of haste is
"breaking the rules".

You get your partial (thanks haste!) then you go about
life as normal (say, using a Refocus). What do you think?

~D

 

[The Souljourner]

I could understand if the FAQ says refocus takes the entire round including any haste actions etc... however, a full round action does not always take a FULL ROUND to complete..... otherwise you wouldn't be able to get an extra attack during your haste partial action if you did a full attack, since that's also a full round action.

According to the FAQ you *can* take a 5' step. It also says you have to take your entire round without acting or moving, but that's generally true of any full round action. Haste is a special case.

I can understand why people would go either way, but the fact of the matter is, there's no definitive answer, and the default is that you can do your haste action.

-The Souljourner