Haste, should it age you?

[2WS-Steve]

If you want to impose a cost on haste you might consider a temporary effect, such as having it either fatigue the character (according to the fatigue rules) or cause temporary ability damage such as one point to Con; either occuring after the duration expires. Haste provides a temporary benefit and I think you should generally avoid permanent costs (such as aging) for those.

You can also look at the d20 Modern versions of problem spells. Haste no longer grants an extra partial action; instead it grants an extra attack as part of a full attack sequence and increases ground speed; also, the AC bonus drops to +2. I'm not so sure about this fix since it nerfs the spell for casters but has little effect on fighter types. The Stat buffs in d20 Modern are nice though; they drop to 10 minute/level duration but grant a flat +5 enhancement bonus; that helps reduce the amount of die rolling prior to a dungeon.

 

[reapersaurus]

I agree with the others: Haste's 2E aging mechanic blew.

Any mechanic that penalizes one race more than others is just silly.

 

[Dakhran the Dark]

You want to talk unfair, try playing a thri-kreen in a party full of elves and dwarves. I think the elves cast haste just to slowly kill me, it was a conspiracy I tell ya...

Then again, I did have this habit of drooling when I looked at them...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I played 2e kreen as well. I always took psion, and always took Accelerate. The 2e psionics were so broken it wasn't even funny (escept for me, being a munchkin).

I told the wizard, flatly, if he cast Haste on me I would eat him. After all, if I age a year I'm building up a year of hunger.

In 3e, however, they took the effort to try to balance things, even though they didn't always succeed. Thus, I don't use broken combos like Great Cleave/Whirlwind Attack/Wand of Improved Invisibility/Sneak Attack Rog15/Wiz1 smackdown, even though it is perfectly legal.

 

[mkletch]

The haste armor that you are reffering to, is it the one from DotF? If it is that was errata'd to act just like the boots of speed for up to 10 rounds a day, standard action to activate and all.

And as for the upping hastes spell level, I can kinda agree with that. Everytime we get into battle all the spellcasters cast haste right away.

AFAIK, Speed armor was not officially errata'd.

-Fletch!

 

[mkletch]

I agree with the others: Haste's 2E aging mechanic blew.

Any mechanic that penalizes one race more than others is just silly.

Oh, here we are with the egalitarian "everybody is equal" thing. I'm sorry, but I have met a few people who were markedly more intelligent, stronger AND charismaric than I. Then again, I have met many that should not even ... I'll leave it at that that. The whole "All men are created equal" bit refers to their rights, NOT their abilities.

A flat party of completely equal characters is not exciting, it is boring. Look at books, movies, comics, etc. There are no 'equality fests'. Superman, Batman, etc. Very dissimilar in power, but they still work together, and it is interesting. Aragorn, hobbits that don't know north from up. The examples could go on and on.

I am actually pretty much through with the races, classes and character creation rules for my new campaign. By the dice, you could wind up with 20 points for ability point buy, or 36. You could have a 1st to 6th level character at start. You could be starting as a character in the "old" age category or a young pup. All character creation in a vacuum (I'm sure I'll get a party of four rogues and a bard). And I have some pretty good agreement that an 'unbalanced party' could be exciting.

If you want to impose a cost on haste you might consider a temporary effect, such as having it either fatigue the character (according to the fatigue rules) or cause temporary ability damage such as one point to Con; either occuring after the duration expires. Haste provides a temporary benefit and I think you should generally avoid permanent costs (such as aging) for those.

Almost like Baldur's gate. I would also rule that a permanent item would deprive you of the ability damage as long as it is worn, kind of like a holy or intelligent weapon bestowing negative levels as long as it is wielded by a not-appropriately-aligned character.

However, the XP as permanent "cost" has been overdone. There are absolutely no costs in the game, not even death, that cannot be overcome with nothing more than a little extra effort to catch up, or the snap of a finger by the appropriate spellcaster in your party. As a DM, there really is nothing 'in the rules' that I can do to inflict a permanent debilitation, cost or curse upon a character that cannot be undone. This is a failing of the system, and it is worse than any problems with Speed armor.

You can also look at the d20 Modern versions of problem spells. Haste no longer grants an extra partial action; instead it grants an extra attack as part of a full attack sequence and increases ground speed; also, the AC bonus drops to +2. I'm not so sure about this fix since it nerfs the spell for casters but has little effect on fighter types. The Stat buffs in d20 Modern are nice though; they drop to 10 minute/level duration but grant a flat +5 enhancement bonus; that helps reduce the amount of die rolling prior to a dungeon.

Thanks, 2WS-Steve. I had pretty much ignored the d20 Modern spells section, but if this is true, I need to give it a good, close read. It seems to get closer to 'spells of the same level have the same power', something definitely not true in core 3E.

-Fletch!

 

[mkletch]

In 3e, however, they took the effort to try to balance things, even though they didn't always succeed. Thus, I don't use broken combos like Great Cleave/Whirlwind Attack/Wand of Improved Invisibility/Sneak Attack Rog15/Wiz1 smackdown, even though it is perfectly legal.

It's only a smackdown if there is no story or background behind it. The more 'odd' the combination, the more work the character should do in game to achieve it. This is player responsibility, though, not a strict game mechanic, and doesn't seem to fit into many people's 'entertainment'. Their loss.

Instead of losing a level to Wizard, Use Magic Device. The smackdown you listed is actually sub-optimal .

-Fletch!

 

[Shaele]

AFAIK, Speed armor was not officially errata'd.

-Fletch!

Check out the updated FAQ - it now acts as Boots of Speed (10 rounds/day, command-activated) for the cost of a +2 enchantment. Finally, a hint of balance

 

[mkletch]

Check out the updated FAQ - it now acts as Boots of Speed (10 rounds/day, command-activated) for the cost of a +2 enchantment. Finally, a hint of balance

Why it was in the Main FAQ instead of the FAQ for the appropriate supplement, I don't know. Why it is not in the official errata instead of the quasi-official FAQ is another question.

It is a good mod, though - it follows the same process that can be used to calculate most of the other armor modifiers (divide cost of the magic item ability by 5000, then square root, usually round up). So, I'll probably use this 'new' version in my next campaign (in development).

-Fletch!

 

[Vaxalon]

I think Haste is good the way it is, but there ought to be a fatigue penalty.

1d6 subdual damage per round?

1 Con damage is probably a bit steep, and smacks of a Corrupt spell.