Haste, should it age you?

[Saeviomagy]

MKletch - have you ever seen one of those crossover comics where one of the party members is flat-out better than every other character present? Where he takes all the screen time because noone else can compete?

Gee, wonder why. Maybe because there wouldn't have been a point having the other characters there...

 

[Stalker0]

Why it was in the Main FAQ instead of the FAQ for the appropriate supplement, I don't know. Why it is not in the official errata instead of the quasi-official FAQ is another question.

-Fletch!

Probably because the errata is dry, boring, hard to read, and a lot of work for the average person to go through their books and look at the tidbits of text to change. The Faq is clean, graphic, quick, and is much more enjoyable to read.

 

[Stalker0]

I think Haste is good the way it is, but there ought to be a fatigue penalty.

1d6 subdual damage per round?

1 Con damage is probably a bit steep, and smacks of a Corrupt spell.

I actually really like this idea of a house rule. Personally, I think in the long run WOTC went for the lower power factor but safe route in most of their spells. I would like to see a little more of the badass spells that carry a penalty, they make the game more interesting.

 

[LordAO]

"The reason for this post is that I feel that some uses of haste are unbalanced."

I've heard people say the same thing about fireball. Just because it's 3rd level doesn't mean it isn't powerful. 3rd level spells are powerful. I'm playing a 17th level Sorcerer right now and I use more 3rd level spells than any others, just because they are some of the best spells. I have haste, and it hasn't caused many problems. Believe me, the new 3rd edition haste is very well balanced with other spells of its level. There is no need to do anything else to it, but if you feel you must do something, being fatigued afterwards (like Barbarian Rage) is probably a fair compromise.

And forgive me, but the whole aging thing is one thing I was very glad to see go in 3rd edition, it is stupid, senseless and unfair. The idea that casting such a minor spell should permanently damage my character is ludicrous. And yes it does permanently damage your character. Those who said it doesn't really matter are wrong. When you are human, it most certainly does matter. The more powerful spells now cost experience points, which is much better. It reflects the fact that such power should be earned. And unlike years on your life, exp points can be regained. But no, before you ask, I DO NOT THINK HASTE SHOULD COST EXP. It just isn't that good of a spell.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I had pretty much ignored the d20 Modern spells section, but if this is true, I need to give it a good, close read. It seems to get closer to 'spells of the same level have the same power', something definitely not true in core 3E.

-Fletch!

It's interesting what they decided to change; Invisibility also dropped to a 1 minute per level duration. My suspicion is that a fair bit of what we see in d20 Modern will be the standard at some point down the line.

--------------

On a unrelated note, "of Speed" acting like Boots of Speed for a +2 bonus strikes me as way too expensive; even with base +2 armor you're looking at adding 15000 gp of cost while boots of speed only cost 8k. Admittedly it saves a slot but armor bonuses are really valuable.

 

[mkletch]

MKletch - have you ever seen one of those crossover comics where one of the party members is flat-out better than every other character present? Where he takes all the screen time because noone else can compete?

Gee, wonder why. Maybe because there wouldn't have been a point having the other characters there...

But in a game where each character gets one action, you cannot dominate the screentime except with a high level spellcaster. Roleplayingtips.com had a couple articles on unequal groups that were really good.

This is roleplaying, not a CRPG. Player balance is less important than story, unless you play a different D&D than I. If your players feel that that everybody has to be equal to contribute, then it sounds like you have a group that is trying to 'win'. I'm sorry, but this is not a game directed at winning, but experiencing, developing. There may be victories along the way, but I'm talking about a mindset that demands to 'win'; it misses the whole point of DnD.

-Fletch!

 

[hong]

This is roleplaying, not a CRPG. Player balance is less important than story, unless you play a different D&D than I. If your players feel that that everybody has to be equal to contribute, then it sounds like you have a group that is trying to 'win'. I'm sorry, but this is not a game directed at winning, but experiencing, developing. There may be victories along the way, but I'm talking about a mindset that demands to 'win'; it misses the whole point of DnD.

Fine. YOU play the wimp.

 

[mkletch]

Probably because the errata is dry, boring, hard to read, and a lot of work for the average person to go through their books and look at the tidbits of text to change. The Faq is clean, graphic, quick, and is much more enjoyable to read.

But putting it in the wrong FAQ? Not making an official change? I don't mind the change, but you have to do it right. Sloppy is not worth the effort.

None of these documents are 'graphic' or 'enjoyable to read'. That is not their purpose. What you are describing is a lead screwdriver with a pink fuzzy handle...

-Fletch!

 

[mkletch]

Fine. YOU play the wimp.

I have, and it was not intellectually unrewarding (or in XP/GP either ). If anything, there is a risk that the highly advanced character gets bored. A player whose character is nearly or always hasted can actually get bored, doing everything while it seems like the other party members are just standing around.

This is not a discussion of party balance, though. Haste is one of the love-it/hate-it spells. IMO, it is too powerful for a 3rd level spell, and is one of the few spells that breaks an otherwise useful magic item system. It works well in very high magic campaigns (like the standard Greyhawk or FR campaign settings) or in very low magic campaigns. For an 'average magic campaign', it elevates spellcasters too much, but can really distort any character's contributions. If you have a world with flying castles and dragons sweeping the streets, haste is of no concern to you.

I frankly don't see the problem with Speed armor as it was. It was right on per the magic item system, and most high level characters either cast Mass Haste on a whim, or have a portable hole full of haste potions. How is that any more "balanced"? 'Fixing' speed armor does not cancel the fact that it duplicates one of the most common spells in the game. To paraphrase something from one of the design articles in Dragon, if it is something that everybody wants all of the time, then it is simply too good. Haste sits this bill.

-Fletch!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I've playted in some totally unbalanced 2e campaigns; and a few 3e ones as well. It isn't fun being the most powerful character in the group (unless your idea of fun is using a Wish to get only the good cards from a Deck of Many Things when your DM actually allows it), and it's even less fun being the normal character when someone else is kicking @ss and taking names.

Balance aside, you should aim for a fun campaign, since this is only a game.