Have the third-party d20 publishers failed?

[philreed]

Well if someone wanted to get less than arbitrary Im sure there are many publishers who would take cash up front, in the nature of 10 grand, to produce the three-module series of their choice, and then split with them any profit made from the venture.

I've thought, many times and for a few years now, that I should run a special eBay auction. High bidder gets a 32-page PDF designed to fit a specific request. You want an adventure for six characters -- a paladin 2, fighter 2, bard 4, cleric 1, wizard 2, and wizard 3 -- that features skeletons and oozes? Win the auction and you get it.

 

[Vigilance]

Thats a wicked cool idea.

But what do I know, Im one of those publishers that failed lol.

Chuck

 

[Pramas]

You guys DO know that in TSR's glory days, when they were making the giant adventures and the Drow modules, that they LOST MONEY on those modules?

I don't know know where you got that idea, but it's not true. Those G-D-Q modules and many other old TSR adventures sold in the hundreds of thousands "back in the day."

 

[Vigilance]

I don't know know where you got that idea, but it's not true. Those G-D-Q modules and many other old TSR adventures sold in the hundreds of thousands "back in the day."

I guess I got that idea from the idea that WOTC wanted someone else to make their adventures for them, and assuming it wasn't because they were profitable

But either way I stand corrected thanks Chris

Chuck

 

[philreed]

Thats a wicked cool idea.

Thanks. I get those every now and then.

 

[Belen]

Thanks. I get those every now and then.

Thanks for the links. I tend to buy very few PDFs, but I will look into the material.

Here is the main problem. How do we know this material exists? Until this thread, I had never heard of it. This is true for a majority of GMs and this is one of my main points.

 

[Krug]

There's no way any d20 publisher market can come anywhere WotC's numbers. Speak to folks at cons and your FLGS. Chances are a majority of them don't even know about the d20 movement, much less buy non-WotC stuff.

 

[Belen]

Thats a wicked cool idea.

But what do I know, Im one of those publishers that failed lol.

Chuck

Again, I never heard about RPGobjects before this thread, or it may have been in some jumbled ENWorld news at some point, but I tend to tune out unrecognized publishers. How can GMs or anyone buy the matetial if no one knows it exists?

I am sure you guys make great products, yet it is difficult to scan through 50 different publishers and several hundred different products and know what to get or even realize that it exists.

This overabundance is a industry failure to a large degree.

In most markets, companies only get into an industry where a clear profit can be made. This happens until zero profit is left and a stability is reached.

This is not true for the game industry. Too many people have entered the market. Many of these people are fans and are willing to do anything as long as they make just enough to survive.

The main issue then becomes that companies are fighting over a market that bears an actual loss of revenue. Too much competition that does NOT play by normal supply and demand rules.

Thus, only books (sourcebooks) because they can turn enough funds that allow hand-to-mouth profit with just enough left to print that next sourcebook.

I honestly believe that a d20 recession/ depression will soon hit the market. Most likely this will occur not long after Complete Adventurer as no new edition will exist to paper over the cracks and artificially keep players buying books. Thus, WOTC is looking to devote resources to GMs.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Crothian]

Again, I never heard about RPGobjects before this thread, or it may have been in some jumbled ENWorld news at some point, but I tend to tune out unrecognized publishers. How can GMs or anyone buy the matetial if no one knows it exists?

Well, obviously, if you don't know about something you can't buy it. But being on EN World, reading the publisher forum, paying attention to the front page news, and reading reviews is a great way to learn about some of the small comapnies who put out some really good product.

 

[Belen]

This is all another case of a few loud people making statements online. It's statements with money that drive publishers to NOT produce adventures. Those publishers making adventures are doing so because they can sell them -- if you want adventures, support those publishers so that they'll keep producing them.

Sorry to be just one of a few loudmouths, or the loudmouth as far as this thread is concerned.

I do support publishers that produce adventures. I buy Necromancer. I recently bought MGE, and I have purchased from Malhavoc, Green Ronin etc.

Tell me where to go to buy adventures. With the high number of publishers, I virtually have no clue where to go, what to buy, or how to evaluate it. I certainly cannot page through a PDF before buying it. Few adventures exist to page through in stores.

Of all the links you gave me. Where do I go to evaluate it or page through it in order to get a feel for what I am buying? PDF technology still has not come anywhere near rivaling print for that flexibility.

I hear that it is hard. I even understand that. Maybe we need a new model for electronic publishing? I think that this is the case.

How is this for a radical idea? A website that charges a subscription fee and allows you to view or download a number of PDFs based on subscription price. Seems to me this allows a publisher to get paid a percentage of that subscription fee, provides a marketing tool to publishers, and gives customers a chance to test unknown or small publishers without getting burned by too many bad products.

Heck, the locks in drivethru products would even be fully acceptable under a subscription plan because I am not actually buying that specific product.

Dave (loudmouth customer full of ideas)