Have we lost the dungeon?

[Psion]

I think moderation is called for. I don't think we should shuck them off or dismiss them as old school -- they still have a lot to offer as an interesting challenge. At the same time, I think turning towards world and society design provides for greater variety and character depth.

To dismiss either would be to deny yourself variety.

I do agree with Joshua that some of the "back to the dungeon" mindset was ill considered and made for some design decisions that compromised the flexibility of the game.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

As both a player and a DM, I like variety: some dungeons, some city adventures, some wilderness adventures, some interludes, some roleplaying, some info gathering, etc. So when picking (or designing) a campaign setting, I want to have something that caters to all of those options.

And I don't think of it as "dungeon design" -- I think of it as "adventure design."

You just described my current campaign. Start with a betrayal, segue quickly into an arena battle, add a daring escape, an overland pursuit, and land in an ancient dwarven stronghold now overrun by undead. Next, have a quick spelunk through a cave system out the back door, end up in a plains overrun by dinosaurs and thri-kreen, and then it's off to an abandoned wizard's tower to see if there's anything interesting left there after 1000 years. Later, throw in a druid, a demon lord, the far realms, and a quest to undo the largest mistake ever made in history, and that covers a lot of different venues.

We have some dungeon, some wilderness, some city, some chases, some hunts, some searches, and a lot of stuff to do so that it never gets boring.

 

[Gothmog]

I don't miss the dungeons and I haven't used them in years. I still think the "return to the dungeon" philosophy was ill-considered and quixotic. The market has largely grown up since those days.

Preach it Brother Dyal!

Seriously, I NEVER talk about my dungeons, but about the campaign world, history, political intrigues, secret societies, obscure cults, mythology, etc. I use the occasional ruins or complex site-based locale to explore, but its never in a "lets clear it and loot all the treasure" way- more of an Indiana Jones sort of thing. More of going in looking for specific information or to achieve a specific goal. I saw the "return to the dungeon" philosophy as ill-conceived, especially since 3E is balanced around the assumption of 3-4 consecutive encounters before resting. The classes are "balanced" for such dungeon delving, but not for usefulness outside combat for the most part. Maybe its just me, but if the PCs get in 3-4 consecutive fights, they are doing something wrong and will probably suffer casualties or fatalities.

 

[Desdichado]

Preach it Brother Dyal!

To be fair, it's not like I never use them. I have a smallish one planned for my current campaign. Then again, we've been playing for about a year now and haven't done one yet, and I can't imagine the dungeon I have in mind will take more than a single session.

And it's not the traditional dungeon, with monsters sitting in rooms guarding treasure. It's more of a one-time thing; along the lines of the Raiders of the Lost Ark intro.

So, I don't completely eschew dungeons. Just mostly. "Olde skool" dungeons bore me to tears, as does the playing mentality which led to them. Luckily, I don't think anyone in my group really disagrees too much with me.

 

[Numenorean]

The market has largely grown up since those days.

Yes, thats it allright! The dungeon is a concept of immature or youthful gaming... definitely childish or a reflection of the market being young.

/snicker

/rude


Speak for yourself.

 

[billd91]

Preach it Brother Dyal!

Seriously, I NEVER talk about my dungeons, but about the campaign world, history, political intrigues, secret societies, obscure cults, mythology, etc. I use the occasional ruins or complex site-based locale to explore, but its never in a "lets clear it and loot all the treasure" way- more of an Indiana Jones sort of thing. More of going in looking for specific information or to achieve a specific goal. I saw the "return to the dungeon" philosophy as ill-conceived, especially since 3E is balanced around the assumption of 3-4 consecutive encounters before resting.

I have to generally agree. We spent years (my local players and I) working out way OUT of the dungeon mode and into more complex stories and campaigns. Now, we do dungeons more rarely (in the classic sense of just going off to explore some treasure/monster-filled underground site) though we still do plenty of adventures based around particular sites.

 

[Greylock]

Come to think of it, my party has yet to kill a dragon. Sure, we saw one, fought our rivals right under its snout, and talked to it. But it's not the same.

Oh, go ahead, bring up the drakes. Yeah, yeah, we slaughtered the whole lot of them and their babies too. But no dragons...

*hangs head in shame*

 

[Hammerhead]

I always joke that the games we play are just called "&", since there aren't any Dungeons or Dragons.

 

[Mark]

As a DM and a Player, I miss the dungeons.

Quasqueton

Here's three for free...

Cooperative Dungeon 01 - Terror and Blasphemy

Cooperative Dungeon 02 - Halls of Anarchy

Cooperative Dungeon 03 - Crypt of Damnation

 

[pogre]

I think this place is pretty unique in its general outlook on dungeons - that is to say not running them as much. The biggest selling modules for TSR towards the end were the Dungeon Crawl Classics line. Goodman games has their series and almost every Necromancer product has a dungeon. I use dungeons and I like them - yes I try to use some dungeon ecology but I use it as an aid to design, not a hindrance. The Back to the Dungeon slogan was part of what brought me back to D&D - I do not see it as primitive gaming at all.

The more casual D&Der or dare I say less hardcore D&Der is certainly not tired of dungeons, and from this thread it appears many of us hardcore types are not either