Have you found Bo9S characters to outshine other classes?

[Shadeydm]

I have been considering this book for purchase for some time now so I love reading as much about it as possible, post away folks!

Much of what I read about seems split evenly between two camp the its just fine with minor tweaking camp, and the unbalanced proceed with caution/if at all camp. So I keep reading and waiting to be convinced that its worth 25 clams to pick it up and never end up making the purchase.

 

[Mort]

Not to quibble too much, but it's the "problems with the book" that would cause "overshadowing of other calsses in ACTUAL PLAY." So these questions are rather similar.

I tend to equate "problems with the book" as unintended problems; such as ridiculous concentration or jump checks playing havoc with some of the manuevers, or the clear lack of playtesting on some manuevers (WRT obviously) and the like. I just don't want the discussion to devolve to "this is broken" - "no it isn't" and instead concentrate on the actual question.

 

[Nail]

Much of what I read about seems split evenly between two camp the its just fine with minor tweaking camp, and the unbalanced proceed with caution/if at all camp. So I keep reading and waiting to be convinced that its worth 25 clams to pick it up and never end up making the purchase.

I'm firmly in the "unbalanced proceed with caution/if at all camp".....and yet I would say get a copy of ToB:Bo9S.


...even though the book violates one of my Codes of Purchasing:
"Don't buy a book that can't decide on it's own title. It doesn't bode well for the rest of it."

 

[Nail]

I just don't want the discussion to devolve to "this is broken" - "no it isn't" and instead concentrate on the actual question.

Fair enough.

 

[Rystil Arden]

In actual play, I've seen the Bo9S classes (with nerfs to only have access to one school) outshine, lessee:

Paladin of Freedom
Rogue/Spymaster
Arcane Trickster
Unfettered
Ranger
Druid (the Druid didn't have Wildshape yet--I've no doubt that will change things eventually)
Warlock


I won't include the Fighter in this analysis because you claim they should be 'more powerful than a core Fighter' by definition, a concept with which I greatly disagree (a pity for you though--the only Fighter I could include in analysis was better than the nerfed Bo9S character). Would you like to include the Monk? Most people also add Monks to the list of what it's okay for Bo9S to outshine.

I haven't seen one in a group with a Cleric yet, so I can't comment on Cleric.

 

[Mort]

In actual play, I've seen the Bo9S classes (with nerfs to only have access to one school) outshine, lessee:

Paladin of Freedom
Rogue/Spymaster
Arcane Trickster
Unfettered
Ranger
Druid (the Druid didn't have Wildshape yet--I've no doubt that will change things eventually)
Warlock


I won't include the Fighter in this analysis because you claim they should be 'more powerful than a core Fighter' by definition, a concept with which I greatly disagree (a pity for you though--the only Fighter I could include in analysis was better than the nerfed Bo9S character). Would you like to include the Monk? Most people also add Monks to the list of what it's okay for Bo9S to outshine.

I haven't seen one in a group with a Cleric yet, so I can't comment on Cleric.

Of all these, I'm most curious about the druid, I've seen Bo9s classes in play and I've seen druid's in play; I have a difficult time seeing how a Bo9s character can keep up with much less outshine even a minorly optimized druid (maybe at low levels, but mid to high is where I question this).

 

[Rystil Arden]

Of all these, I'm most curious about the druid, I've seen Bo9s classes in play and I've seen druid's in play; I have a difficult time seeing how a Bo9s character can keep up with much less outshine even a minorly optimized druid (maybe at low levels, but mid to high is where I question this).

You may have missed the edit I slipped in before you quoted me. The Druid did not have Wildshape yet. Compared to the Bo9S character, the Druid was a total laughingstock. I think the Bo9S character outshined the Druid *more* than any of the others on that list, ironically.

 

[Shadeydm]

Just to clarify is the question do they outshine all other classes except the fighter, or do they outshine the other melee classes except the fighter?

 

[Patlin]

As I posted in my "Aura Party" thread, the warblade did not outshine the other party members in our campaign.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

My last party was a Bard, Swordsage, Rogue, and Favored Soul. The Swordsage stood out in combat, but only because it's a combat class. It didn't overshadow anyone, because they all had their niches.

Prior to that I ran a group of Fighter/Barbarian, Warblade, Cleric, and a Scout. The Warblade and the Fighter/Barbarian had about the same average damage per round, even at high levels. The perceived overpoweredness of the Warblade is only at around levels 1 to 3.

-TRRW