Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier

[kodyboy]

I think the con modifier continues to add HPs past first level but it just is not mentioned in the text because it is the same for all classes. Maybe the rouge gets 5 + con and a fighter gets 10 + con or 5 + 2x con or some such derivative.

 

[Steely Dan]

I think the con modifier continues to add HPs past first level

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5



I really don't think so

 

[Keenath]

I have a theory on what Healing Surge means, but rather than repost my maunderings, I'll just direct interested parties over to a devoted thread.

 

[Flynn]

My initial reaction was much like the OP's position: Healing Surges refers to a game mechanic term in 4E, and for the rogue, any Healing Surge restores 6 plus Con modifier (Stat Mod plus Half Level). It was just my gut reaction when I read it.

I think Healing Surges are triggered by a number of powers, spells or special conditions, such as Second Wind.

I imagine that multi-classed characters will use the highest of their Heroic Surge numbers, or perhaps the Heroic Surge of the class with the highest level (and their choice if they have two or more classes as the same level), instead of an average between the Heroic Surge numbers of all classes.

I think the reason I did not think of them as per-day abilities is simply because I don't recall seeing anything in 4E that says you get to use this resource X times per day, per encounter, or per level. Instead, they are categorized by level of renewal, and it appears that powers work only once within those conditions, unless another game mechanic resets them (like spending an action point, for example). Action points will likely be the only game mechanic that avoids the per day, per encounter, etc. limitations that appear to be presented so far.

Of course, this is only my opinion, as uninformed as it is, and as always, YMMV. I believe we may have some insight after this next weekend, though.

Looking Forward To The News Then,
Flynn

 

[Atreides]

I was originally of the opinion that 6+Con referred to the HP healed instead of the number of surges allowed - but the evidence posted later in this thread leads me to the opposite conclusion. By establishing some type of limit to healing there is now a finite limit to a Clerics per encounter healing abilities, as well as the Heal skill itself.

For example - the Heal skill could be DC 20, allow bloodied target to use one healing surge. A Potion of healing could be - when imbibed activate a healing surge. A Cleric can have an encounter ability which states - chant lots, target activates healing surge. The key is that regardless of the number of encounters you have (and by extension the number of times the Cleric uses their encounter ability or the Fighter makes that DC 20 Heal check) there is a point when your character can no longer be healed by healing surges for the day. The party can not clear the entire dungeon if they repeatedly lose 90% of their hit points every encounter. By limiting surges, there is still strategic/tactical value in limiting the damage which the party receives.

The amount healed by a surge could be a number of things:
Con Score
Con Modifier
1/4 of Total HP
Healing Surge number (for the Rogue 6+ CON modifier)

I suspect the HP will scale in some fashion (either due to a percentage or due a scaling CON modifier) but the means of scaling are difficult to ascertain - perhaps DnDxP will answer that for us.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

This is something where we won't have to wait too long for answers: I can't see any way for the demo games at DDXP not to tell the players how the healing system works.

 

[Chocobo]

Okay, I'll concede the possibility of a per-day limit.

They seem to love 1/4 HP figures; perhaps then, it's the number of times you can be returned to 1/4 HP (as in the nat 20 recovery from death). And is unlocked by heal checks, cleric powers, etc, etc...


Fitz

Yeah I think this is most likely the case. The natural 20 and the healing surge are the same thing. Healing surge gives you 1/4 hp, and the natural 20 on your save vs. dying activates a healing surge. They only phrased it as 1/4 hp in the how to do it in 3.5 section because there are no healing surges in 3.5. But in 4e it would follow all the usual rules and modifiers for healing surges, whatever those might be.

 

[Li Shenron]

My theory is times per day. Nothing else makes much sense.

Healing amount is too low to matter.
Per level is just crazy bad design, unless levels *have* to be gained according to a set schedule of encounters.

The amount is either based on Con, or, more likely, a percentage or fraction of hit points. (1/4 or 1/3, most likely).

My first thought:

"6 + Con" is the hit points your PC heals every time he receives a healing surge.

I don't know what gives a healing surge but probably action points and other characters' healing powers. Maybe also each PC can activate a HS every now and then without the help of other PCs (but AP already provide that).

And about the fact that 6+Con is too low at high levels, this is true only if you can get one HS at a time. What if the Cleric healing powers can give you X healing surge at once, maybe X = 1/2 cleric level? What if you can spend as many AP at the same time as you have left, each of which gives 6+Con?

 

[Evilhalfling]

My thought was that healing surges was the number of times per day the healing surge could be activated, each time healing 1/4 hp. The second wind ability would be activatable only when bloodied (1/2 hp). I could also see someone else activating the surge for you (with the healing skill for example) for a 10th lvl rogue (con10-16)+12+45= 67-73hp. This would be 16-19 hp per surge.

Other arguments that a healing surge was the number of HP restored make sense only if it scales 6 + con mod (orginal +1/2 level) for the 10th level rogue the surge would heal 11-14 hp that is comparatively very little healing.

I have also heard rumors that second wind is a per encounter ability
and that dwarves can use it more, or faster.
Can anyone verify the either of these?

 

[malraux]

In the spirit of 4e, it looks like everyone wins on healing surges. They are both the number of times per day you can heal and the amount of healing you get.

5. Healing gets an overhaul.
Hit points still measure your ability to stay in the fight, but
healing’s no longer just the burden of one character
anymore. Each character has a certain number of healing
surges. Once during each encounter, you can take a
standard action called a second wind; this gives you a certain
amount of hit points back equal to your healing surge value
and gives you a +2 bonus to all your defenses until the start
of your next turn. You then tick off one of your healing
surges for the day. Some powers (like some cleric prayers)
will also heal you your healing surge value, and you’ll tick off
your healing surges for them as well. When you run out of
healing surges, you’ll want to take an extended rest.
If you’re outside of combat, you can take a short rest and
tick off the healing surges you need to heal up damage.
TIP: If you’ve been knocked down a few hit points and
can’t decide what to do when it’s your turn, taking a second
wind action is a good idea.

edit: or maybe not, as the fighter's sheet has different values listed for each, but perhaps feat/class abilities/race abilities modify each separately.