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Healing too powerful?

TimSmith

Registered User
I agree that healing capability is extremely powerful- but so is magic of any kind, applied appropriately. (A good offensive spell barrage might render the healing spells moot, if everyone is dead!)

In a world where magic is commonplace, healing magic would be an extremely valuable resource and cultivated/hoarded like any other valuable resource. If you play a lower magic world, then it might be even more valuable/rare but possibly less effective overall, as it is not available in enough quantity to really tip the balance.

To take your point about a war (of attrition or otherwise), if you assume magic is readily available, as 3rd ed implies, then both sides will be mobilising their healing troops and stock piling their potions etc. Any viable society in a high magic world must have developed a sufficient healing capability to avoid being overtaken by other societies, OR perhaps have a sufficiently high birth rate to replace those members lost to disease, wounds etc. So you might have a low population of elves with lots of magic enabling them to survive the conflicts with the numerous but "magic resource inferior" orcs. The orcs may drop like flies but there's always more where they came from, whereas the elves are hard to take down but every elf lost is a tragedy to their society and its resources. Another possibility is that a group may have developed specialised tactics for dealing with enemies who have more healing magic than them. (Off the cuff, maybe their warriors try to force decisive resolutions to conflicts and avoid being drawn into guerilla warfare situations).

If you are thinking about "hit and run" tactics in raiding the "typical" dungeons, the same more or less applies, but in microcosm. If denizens of a dungeon don't have any healing capability (unlikely in the case of intelligent humanoids in a high magic world who have managed to survive this long) then they must have ways to compensate or they will already be dead! Intelligent opponents will take precautions against repeat incursions, maybe setting traps to redress the balance and pursuing the characters. Unintelligent ones may well pursue or if wounded they might even flee the area completely to avoid the threat, holing up somewhere to lick their wounds and recover. From the point of view of a challenging game, a single encounter is balanced by EL even allowing for magical healing. If players insist on retiring to rest every encounter, then things can be adjusted so that they get more monsters moving in to the vacant rooms, or they get missions with time constraints etc. etc. etc.

So, I don't think healing is unbalanced, as long as you take a world where such magic exists to its logical conclusion, and don't let players treat monsters as idiots held in stasis until their dungeon door is opened.
 

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Turanil

First Post
sfedi said:
Whenever I prepare adventures I notice what an extreme weakness is to lack healing capability.

If a group/individual lacks healing capability he can systematically be beaten by hit and run tactics.

Unfortunately, this means that a "real" war would be determined much more by the healing capabilities of both bands.

Not only that, but Magical Healing, compared to Natural Healing, is extremely effective.


Do you share this view? Opinions? Solutions?
Well, D&D doesn't lend itself well to verisimilitude and coherence. It's already the case with economics, then with healing, then with magic (as in a world where D&D magic would exist, castles for examples, wouldn't be as they were in medieval times in Europe), etc. My suggestion is, in all these cases, to handwave... Just take into account the healing capability of your players when designing / running an adventure.
 

Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!
sfedi said:
Whenever I prepare adventures I notice what an extreme weakness is to lack healing capability.

If a group/individual lacks healing capability he can systematically be beaten by hit and run tactics.

Unfortunately, this means that a "real" war would be determined much more by the healing capabilities of both bands.

Not only that, but Magical Healing, compared to Natural Healing, is extremely effective.


Do you share this view? Opinions? Solutions?

As others have said, healing is built into the system. As a result the lack of it would really mess up the system. As for its application to a "real" war - it seems perfectly in line with the real world. In "real" war, especially medieval war, the need to kill the enemy was not as important as the need to wound them enough to take them out of the action. Often those wounded individuals later died of infections, something that, as I recall, was the reason for most soldier deaths up until the discovery of antibiotics.

Another way to look at it when trying to comare it to "real" war: combat units rarely had an "encounter" that did not result in the deaths of some members of the unit. Others were wounded and sent back. Replacements were sent to the unit. In World War I about one in 15 U.S. troops was killed or wounded; in World War II it was one in 14. The rate climbed to one in 12 in Korea and fell back to one in 16 during Vietnam. That's pretty poor survuval rates when compared to a D&D game. Take out the healing and yes, you will end up with a situation that is much more "realistic" but I would also hope you have players who enjoy making new characters - they would probably be doing it a lot.
 

TracerBullet42

First Post
BigFreekinGoblinoid said:
Magical Healing is nerfed a bit in the Iron Kingdom's setting by Privateer Press. Neat idea. The nations are poised for war too.

I think the meta problems you are bringing up for larger issue of fantasy world plausability are very hard to reconcile. The magic problem goes way beyond healing. Eberron has somewhat attempted to provide explantions for the role of magic in everyday soceity.
Yeah, I love the healing rules of the IK...

It makes things more....interesting.
 

sfedi

First Post
Thank you guys.

So, the conclusion seems to be that succesfull groups/organizations:

-have plenty of memebers to replace in case of loss
-magical healing capability (which is almost always a divine class responsibility)
 

Crothian

First Post
I'm not sure if it is too powerful, but it is too cheap. Getting injuried means so little in the game even getting knocked down in the negatives doesn't really matter in the long run of the game.
 

Aethelstan

First Post
As a player, I was recently in a battle in which I was dropped to negative hp and healed back to positive no less that four times. Several other PCs dropped and were brought back as well. The encounter ended up being like a game of "Whack the Mole." We won the fight so I guess I should not be complaining. Yet the standard healing rules really drained the encounter of any sense of realism or even believability. Yes, yes...I know D&D is a "fantasy" game but a good D&D battle should play like gripping scene from a fantasy novel or movie. Would you ever see this all too common "dying/healed...dying/healed" scenario portrayed on page or screen? No. Why? Because it would seem utterly preposterous and thus would lack any sense of drama. Under the standard healing rules (especially at higher levels), getting knocked negative becomes not a dread evoking event but rather just a momentary setback. I would be interested in hearing ideas and house rules that would make D&D battles a bit more believable in terms of healing. Thanks, Aethelstan
 

ender_wiggin

First Post
I have a few interesting methods of nerfing healing.

THe first is to separate the "Cure" series into two spells, Restore Vigor, and Repair Wounds.

Restore will bring back hit points (and ONLY hit points). It will not stabilize or heal any physical wounds.

Repair will fix some wounds, as well stabilize, but restores no hitpoints.

I use a lot of the Torn Asunder rules though (a lot more problems with physical wounds), so these two spells in my campaign are pretty even.

The second method is a simple rule: if you are brought back to positive hp from dying status, you are automatically exhausted. This will become fatigue in 8 hours, which will then disappear in another hour. Being exhausted makes fighting, and casting spells a LOT harder.
 

Doctor Shaft

First Post
HP and healing spells have become really cumbersome in my opinion, and since I'm a guy who likes to kind of "rationalize" his fantasy games, it really gets annoying, especially at higher levels, how HP becomes more and more "abstract" a number.

At lower levels, you can kind of "wing it" with the number. Say the guy avoided all of his blows and is winded, or took a non-fatal cut that needs attention to. But then we get in the hundreds, and weapon wounds, etc., only do so much damage max, and it starts feeling like an arcade game.

That's why I've really been attracted by the harsher wound systems, like the Grim n Gritty system, etc. Sure, it cuts down on how many oceans of orcs your team of 3 can cut through with optimized characters and equipment, but I think it adds a great "fantasy" element to the game that is just wiped out with healing spells from 3e.

I've had at least two memorable moments in "battle" where healing spells just basically killed the experience. Once, we were fighting in a cave, and someone accidentally set off a poison trap. So we're all coughing and suffering con penalties, then undead soldiers come in to kill us. And at one point, I basically watch my character get cleaved to the ground from a max crit. Wounded. Now, healing spells are cool in the fact that they let you live longer than you should. So it was cool that I got healing and stabilized from what I would otherwise would have just bled to death from while the battle raged on. But... it sucked that I was able to just get right back up, wipe my chest off, and then wade back into the fight like it never happened.

Healing is unbalanced... it's just that nowadays it seems a bit silly. But that's only because people have come forth with different systems that work just as well, if not better. But HP/healing magic has been such a staple of Roleplaying Games, I'd be surprised if any official system like D&D would ever let it go.
 

Aethelstan

First Post
I've looked at Grim n' Gritty but its too grim for my tastes and too radical a variant (IMHO it re-tools d20 to the breaking point). Has anyone tried a Star Wars style Wound/Vitality system with D&D. My thought is that cure spells would heal Vitality at the standard rate but would be less effective at healing Wounds (1/2, 1/3?). I want a variant that makes players actually "feel" the pain of grave injuries.
 

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