Heavy armor barbarian?

[HP Dreadnought]

Doesn't look like there's much to prevent you from playing a barbarian armored like a battleship. You don't get your free point per tier of AC. . . but the heavy armor vastly outclasses that. Costs you a feat, but oh well.

Any particular reason why you shouldn't do this? Seems like you get all the fun of a massive striker, without any "glass cannon" effect.

 

[mneme]

You mean, like an Avenger?

I think, looking at the attributes, a Barbarian that's not investing in Dex (or Int) -should- upgrade to heavy armor (particularly a Rageblood) by Paragon levels.

A better alternative (from Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Excerpts: Primal Power Feats) ) for Rageblood barbarians is the upcoming Hide Armor Expertise -- which lets any Primal with at least a 15 Con and Hide prof. character use Con instead of Dex/Int when wearing hide.

Thaneborn, OTOH, are probably best starting with a 12 con, and letting it upgrade to 13 and grabbing Chain (and probably Scale) proficiency (or maybe even starting with a 13 con and figuring on getting plate and plate spec by epic levels).

Because, well, yes, you can take a few hits against AC at heroic levels. But as it is, you lose a point (of overall defenses) at paragon, and another point at epic, on top of your frontloaded points (and fundamentally, the AC points are more valuable. Who cares if you've got a bit more resilience against Reflex attacks than average when functionally, both your AC and your Reflex are terrible?)

It does look like they're making a good show at fixing the bear shaman and thaneborn barbarian, who downright resilient if you let them use con->AC with one feat.

 

[chitzk0i]

I try to have a 13 con for almost all my characters, so qualifying for chain armor is a given. But once PP comes out, that hide armor feat will be the way to go. In my opinion, thaneborns still do well with a moderate charisma, so I'd go with a 14 or 15 con to go for this feat.

 

[boolean]

It does look like they're making a good show at fixing the bear shaman and thaneborn barbarian, who downright resilient if you let them use con->AC with one feat.

The bear shaman still needs to spend a feat to get hide proficiency. They only get leather for the class.

 

[keterys]

Which is a problem, if true, since he won't have the Str 13... unless he was already thinking ahead to picking up heavy armor in the first place. Sigh.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

@ bear shaman: maybe you should accept that there are classes who should stay away from melee...

@ barbarian: i don´t think chain mail doesn´t fit for a barbarian. scale and plate more so. Chain is ok. scale doesn´t help the barbarian, because he won´t have enough dex to get the specialisation feat and plate hinders him a lot, so it can be counterproductive in some situations...

i believe however the new hide armor feat is a little bit cheap, and helps the barbarian maybe too much, because all hide feats key of constitution.

 

[keterys]

Anyone have the full text of the new hide feat? I mean, if it does
Benefit: Instead of receiving Dex or Int added to your AC, add 2 to your AC with hide armor.
that matches the Con 15 requirement (+2) without it scaling like crazy. Ie, that's not plate, that's just chain at low level and you need the 2nd epic +2 feat at epic to catch up to chain later.

 

[mneme]

@ bear shaman: maybe you should accept that there are classes who should stay away from melee...

Sure, but there's a big difference between "glass cannon" and "hit on a 2 in epic."

In general, classes that have bad defenses are fine; those whose defenses go down (relatively) as they level...not so fine.

So while you do need two feats (and at least an 11 starting strength) to get a bear shaman the new Hide feat (or Chain), it's totally worthwhile and a good idea if you're thinking of the long haul.

I mean, I've played the dude with no AC or HP in 3e, who spent all his time invisible. It's fun, but that's 3e. In 4e, well, sometimes you'll be the bunny.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Anyone have the full text of the new hide feat? I mean, if it does
Benefit: Instead of receiving Dex or Int added to your AC, add 2 to your AC with hide armor.
that matches the Con 15 requirement (+2) without it scaling like crazy. Ie, that's not plate, that's just chain at low level and you need the 2nd epic +2 feat at epic to catch up to chain later.

They haven't published the full text of any of the PP feats, just the table with the abbreviated text, so its not really entirely clear yet how these will fit in.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sure, but there's a big difference between "glass cannon" and "hit on a 2 in epic."

In general, classes that have bad defenses are fine; those whose defenses go down (relatively) as they level...not so fine.

So while you do need two feats (and at least an 11 starting strength) to get a bear shaman the new Hide feat (or Chain), it's totally worthwhile and a good idea if you're thinking of the long haul.

I mean, I've played the dude with no AC or HP in 3e, who spent all his time invisible. It's fun, but that's 3e. In 4e, well, sometimes you'll be the bunny.

Hasn´t this always been this way as defenses in older editions didn´t scale at all?

you fall behind 3 points or 4 if you take armor specialization into account. 11 Strength is also not that bad. And in worst case you can upgrade your armor to hide with second skin and hide expertise at epic level. No problem.

I believe here is another problem with 4e and aserious one:

Attacks which target only AC and deliver conditions. IMHO if there wer none of those attacks, AC was not needed. And i believe this is ine of the few really bad design decisions of 4e.
This is why a rageblood barbarian needs higher AC, because of immobilizations resulting from Attacks vs AC.
If you would go back to a saving throw system instead of defense (having bot active and passive defenses) or a system where effects only trigger if you beat fort or will in adition to AC (there are already attacks whic target lower of AC or Ref)

I strongly believe, AC should never be lower than Ref per Rules. And Fort and Will always determine if you are ffected by conditions (other than restrained maybe)