HELP! DM made mistakes, doesent want to scrap game!

[Oberyn]

ok well since admitting it is the first step towards recovery ill just say it

I made my players to powerfull for my DMing experience!

The only rason I do not want to scrap this game is because it is getting a new player very interested in it all.

We are playing with gestalts and also with extra powerfull racial rules from dawnforge.

They are all 9th level.

One is a barbarian/fighter npc. Due to feats and the buffer caster, she can charge and deal 3d8+48 and she gets two attacks on a charge, she also has about a +20 on these attacks. This is without activationg the shocking property.

Number two is a monk/fighter/drunken master. Awesome for flavor, Nothing extreemly special about this character, made kind of powerfull thanks to an item, easy enough to fix.

Last, but not least in any number, is the buffer mage. sorcerer/rogue/war weaver. Pretty much turns all of her spells into limited mass spells. Rogue side is rather useless.

They have jumped in level and i havent been able to challenge them thanks to some seriouse luck on their part in dragon hunting. I realize that dragons should be murder in the first degree when 4 CR's above the partys ELC, but when said dragons only get 1 round to act before they are turned to pulp they arent very good. The main luck is from crits form a very large hammer. None of them can get their attacks very high or AC's. I would like to challenge them not kill them.

I was thinking of a few things to challenge these gals with. Please add to the list if you can.

Contructs

Undead

High AC enemys

Any other ideas or constructive advice would be nice here.

 

[Khairn]

That's a common mistake, and despite over 25 years of GM'ing I still do it every now and again.

As long as the players are happy and you don't mind running a high powered game, there are a number of things you can do, but it may take some additional work on your part.

I've found out that with games like this I really have to break out the big combat guns, and play the mosters with an eye for really hurting the party. Don't play the monsters in a straight forward manner. They don't necessarily have to be that much more powerful than the party, but they have to be played smart. Use tactics, plan your combat out ahead of time, and go for the jugular against the party.

You can't do anything about lucky dice, but if the party was 9th lv and you were throwing a 13th lv dragon ( 4 lvs higher than party) it should have been a challenge especially given the powers of a young adult - adult dragon. Not being surprised by the arrival of the party, prepping ahead of time and being willing to flee and save its life are 3 things that the dragon should have been able to do.

Just a few thoughts. Good luck.

 

[Oberyn]

Adding in all of their LA's they equal about 12th level and they took on a CR 16 dragon, it had time to prep but wasnt high anough level of a caster to buff. It had enough time to call ten winter wolf buddies, but they killed it in one round and then took care of the pups.

 

[edemaitre]

Game balance

I agree that if the role-playing group is generally happy, not much needs to be changed. However, here are a few suggestions:

-Be stingy with treasure. While your current party has recently slayed a dragon and taken its horde, it may be the last big score for them for a while. Thus, they'll have to conserve resources and be careful with expenses such as guild fees, taxes, and hirelings, not to mention new magic items.

-Intrigue. In my campaign, at higher levels, the biggest challenges for would-be heroes are in the royal court, not necessarily on the battlefield. Now that they have a reputation as kickass warriors, how will they be viewed by their peers? Do they have any rivals? (They can't necessarily backstab fellow Good-aligned ones.) Bad press from a jilted Bard is just as much a problem as a Cleric of an evil deity. Have they attracted the competing attentions of lords who want to use them in the place of slower, more expensive armies? Cults, cabals, and conspiracies tend to follow those who have power or lust after it.

-Clever enemies. As already noted, solid tactics and prepared foes are key to higher-level opponents. Perhaps the next big battle won't be against one large creature, but against an overwhelming number of relatively weak ones. Sure, one Goblin archer riding a warg isn't a problem for your team, but what about 50? Or, maybe they'll encounter a Summoner and his pet demons, or a squad of constructs guarding a crazed fleshcrafter, or a Lich with layers of defenses on several planes, or a group of Drow assassins disguised as High Elven pilgrims... On the other hand, perhaps the dragon had older relatives now hunting the party...

-Environment. Don't forget to use terrain. What about a fight against a tribe of Lizard folk in a steamy jungle filled with carnivorous plants, dinosaurs, and swarms of disease-bearing insects? (Going back to intrigue, what if not everyone in that tribe is evil?) Perhaps the next great artifact is hidden in a volcano, under the sea, deep in a desert or in the claustrophobic Underdark, or atop a remote mountain with antimagical properties due to deposits of cold iron? Such locations can challenge a group to work together just to get where they need to go, even if teleport spells give them an emergency exit. Good luck!

 

[The Lost Muse]

Contructs

Undead

High AC enemys

Any other ideas or constructive advice would be nice here.

Use similarly levelled NPC's to take them down - if the PC's can benefit from all of those rules, so can the NPC's. If you are facing a crunch for time you can always make a "shadow party" just copy down the relevant information from their character sheets. They will then be their own worst enemies.

Tim

 

[DM_Jeff]

High Power

I've had quite a time even coming up with 'Reunion' games for my 17th level party when they gather. Some stuff I came up with:

Infiltrate a city overrun by powerful evil. The implications right there are staggering. The party is well known, so they cannot be seen. Noisy armor is right out. Being discovered could mean BBEG showing up out of nowhere. Mythal laid over the city prevents casual scrying or teleporting. Guard captains given alignment detection amulets. Friends far and few between. No good temples to heal. stuff like that. Huge fights in the streets could threaten the innocent citizens who still are forced to live and work in the city.

Roleplaying, and the good old planes. Someone mentioned environment. Nothing like the planes to give a high level party their due. Roleplaying ont he planes is even better done right!

-DM Jeff

 

[Stormborn]

In the past I have found a big problem on my part has been using mosters or NPCs that I really couldn't take advantage of tactically for their CR. If you really want to challange them then I suggest getting a good monster focused book that deals with their tactics and really learn their abiliites. Something like a Construct might be a good choice for you, as you don't have to worry about a ton of spells. Use small but powerful encounters, and a lot of hit and run tactics, to drain their resources before they get to your UBG and then hammer them with what you have learned.

 

[Enkhidu]

Have, over the course of their adventures, left anyone alive? Or have any of their enemies escaped to fight another day? If so, then take advantage of the fact that you have a person who knows their MO and can build opposition to take advantage of their weaknesses.

Some specific ideas:

1. People that powerful develop enemies they've never even met before. If they've inadvertantly screwed up some big bad's plans, bounty hunters are a good choice (the dead or alive type, preferably). Try mixing it up with a duergar dwarven defender, a mage specializing in dispels from invisibility, and a straight cleric for the big heals - not to mention the requisite ranger for tracking or mage for scrying just to find them.

2. Give them things that they can't necessarily fight by pounding on - how about ghosts that possess their victims? Now they've got innocents in the mix.

3. Use misdirection. One of my more successful (longer, down to the wire) combats I ran pitted the party against a chasme (the fly demon, slightly tweaked), two hellwasp swarms, and a handful of undead bugbears. Since it took place in a tomb, the swarms animated two more corpses (hill giants). So, when the swarms made their appearance inside the hill giant husks, the party had already become used to the idea that they were fighting undead, and the cleric spent a few rounds trying to turn them before closing. The chasme, the only brains in the fight, didn't even make an appearance until near the end (and really didn't even then, as darkness is a fiend's friend).

4. Use terrain. You've said your primary thumper is the charging barbarian. Put up obstacles that make charging impossible (assuming you haven't already due to tossing slow spells at the barb). Put them on a bridge. Or a cliffside. Or in dense undergrowth. You get the idea.

 

[William_2]

Lots of good ideas there – one thought I have is similar to #1 above: enemies who know the PCs. This is always the most dangerous challenge, in my view. Some wealthy opponent (they don’t have to be high level or powerful themselves, even) decides that the PCs need to go. They have them observed for a few weeks, and then put together a team of mercenaries designed to take that particular party down. They wait until the group is vulnerable, and attack with very precise, rehearsed tactics.
Like some other examples above, these opponents don’t need to be high in CR under the circumstances. In fact, party CR or higher would likely result in a PC slaughter using this approach. Instead, a group of mercenaries whose level is somewhat, even quite a bit, below the PCs is I think the right choice. Such a powerful group seriously challenged by less powerful opponents should make for an interesting, and frightening, encounter. The EL of such an encounter should be higher than bumping into these people on the street, and while the CR is likely the same, some bonus XP for defeating such a targeted attack seems fair. Then, finding out who sent the attack creates a plot hook to work with.

 

[Grimstaff]

Very simple: Divide and conquer.
GIve your dragon a sorcerer sidekick. With a couple of Walls of Stone or Force, mr. dragon should be able to pick off the PCs one by one.
Use flanking and high ground for the PC's weaker opponents.
Use slow attrition with gases and poisons to weaken their CON, Dex and Str before the big fight.
Advance some of their opponents with stuff like touch attacks to counter those high AC's and potions of displacement to counter those high "to hit"s.
Spell Resistance and Evasion!
Grappling is good, too. Watch as they hit themselves thrying to rescue each other from grapples!