Help for dealing with rogues

[lancealot501]

A group of friends and myself have started up a new game of D&D3.5. The party works well together sometimes, but we sometimes have problems. The problem that I keep coming up with is the rogue. The rogue and the bard have a bad habit of taking the biggest part of the treasure and lying about it. The rogue's sleight of hand, bluff and the bard with his bluff skill make it impossible to tell they are lying. An example of this is when they opened a chest after checking it for traps. Their was one thousand gold in the chest but with a bluff and sleight of hand, everyone split 500 of it. The rogue and the bard pocketed the other 500. As the DM I know what they did, but as a character my rolls and modifiers can not compete. Do you guys have any advice to help fix this.

 

[Dandu]

You are the DM?

Give spellcasters magical items worth roughly what the Rogue and the Bard stole from the party.

 

[JamesonCourage]

If you don't like it as the GM, let them know outside of the game (or at the game) that you'd like a more cooperative experience, so no stealing. Ripoff NPCs if you have to, but don't rob the party. Just my advice. As always, play what you like

 

[Ahnehnois]

Stealing is not anathema to a good game.

That said, if you don't like it, your first recourse is the rules. A successful Bluff check does not foolproof. If your Bluff is "Hey, look that way" while the rogue pockets 500 gp, that is not going to work, because Bluffs made to influence behavior only last a round. And physically moving 500 gp takes time. Also, note those circumstance modifiers for Bluff. It has to be a really believable lie to be made without penalty.

The deception can also fall apart in innumerable ways. If the thieves actually spend that gold on something, word might get back to the other PCs. Or some might fall out of a bag when the party is surprise attacked.

Lastly, there is the group culture. If this is a real adventuring party, stealing is counterproductive.Rogues and bards aren't exactly tough. You want to have your party members well equipped so they can help you out. If the players aren't seeing the value of teamwork, that subject needs to be addressed inside or outside of the game.

 

[lancealot501]

Another problem that I have is a rogue7/shadowdancer1. With his modifiers he has a 24 in hide and move silently . Combine this with the two weapon fighting feat lets him deal out ridiculous damage. I've tried to look into it and it all seems legit. His tactic is to hide in the monsters shadow. He then attack the monster with a sneak attack with his primary hand uses a free action to hide in the monsters shadow and goes again with a sneak attack with his off hand. Uses a free action to hide again in the monsters shadow. Then he will attack again with another sneak attack. After he finishes he uses a free action to hide again. This makes a total of 15d6 plus his strength modifier. I love the rogue class for the skills and the need for one in a party, but never being able to be hit and doing massive damage takes away from the experience. I don't know about anybody but playing a game on god mode just isn't enjoyable for everyone who actually has a chance of dieing. Do you know if what he is doing is completely legit or not?

 

[Kobold Stew]

Welcome to the boards!

A group of friends and myself have started up a new game of D&D3.5. The party works well together sometimes, but we sometimes have problems. The problem that I keep coming up with is the rogue. The rogue and the bard have a bad habit of taking the biggest part of the treasure and lying about it. The rogue's sleight of hand, bluff and the bard with his bluff skill make it impossible to tell they are lying. An example of this is when they opened a chest after checking it for traps. Their was one thousand gold in the chest but with a bluff and sleight of hand, everyone split 500 of it. The rogue and the bard pocketed the other 500. As the DM I know what they did, but as a character my rolls and modifiers can not compete. Do you guys have any advice to help fix this.

Are the other players in the dark, or just their characters?

I've played in games where one player is role-playing his character as an ass (what I'd say is happening here), and the other players were fine with it, for a while. If the players are ignorant of what's going on (you're using notes, or whatever and no one is suspicious), then you have to ask yourself (as DM) what you think is happening in the game world. Is the player an ass as well as the character? And is this behaviour you want to reward in the game?

Because no sleight-of-hand is pocketing 500 actual coins with no one seeing. And when they get to town and suddenly the rogue has a big diamond that no one has seen before, the party should start to wonder. Make the reality of the disparity clear in game terms, not just in terms of a total on a character sheet. Why are the bard and the rogue suddenly encumbered?

Is it an evil/CN party? Maybe it serves them right. But there will be clues that there is disparity, and once the players have doubts, bluffing in character is no longer an effective tool.

 

[Dandu]

Another problem that I have is a rogue7/shadowdancer1. With his modifiers he has a 24 in hide and move silently . Combine this with the two weapon fighting feat lets him deal out ridiculous damage. I've tried to look into it and it all seems legit. His tactic is to hide in the monsters shadow. He then attack the monster with a sneak attack with his primary hand uses a free action to hide in the monsters shadow and goes again with a sneak attack with his off hand. Uses a free action to hide again in the monsters shadow. Then he will attack again with another sneak attack. After he finishes he uses a free action to hide again. This makes a total of 15d6 plus his strength modifier. I love the rogue class for the skills and the need for one in a party, but never being able to be hit and doing massive damage takes away from the experience. I don't know about anybody but playing a game on god mode just isn't enjoyable for everyone who actually has a chance of dieing. Do you know if what he is doing is completely legit or not?

Hiding takes a move action.

Making multiple attacks in one round takes a full round action.

He cannot perform his actions by RAW.

A general solution to this problem is to throw out monsters with blindsense, blindsight, scent, mindsense, etc. It is also easy to get monsters who are immune to sneak attack; undead, constructs, plants, elementals, etc.

But in this case, the player was cheating. More drastic measures should be taken. Remember when meting out punishment it is better to err on the side of harshness.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Dandu has the link right, but the action itself is a bit different than just a move. If it's normal hiding, then it's as part of movement, which means it can't be done during a full attack since the character doesn't move during one. The only times I can think of where movement happens during a full attack action are as a 5-foot step and during a charge. A 5-foot step -might- work, but that only happens once per round. And forget about hiding during a charge without some epic modifiers (+24 isn't even close to epic stuff). If the character is sniping with a ranged attack though, hiding is itself a move action and can't be done during a regular move because of that. It doesn't seem like the rogue has the capability of changing what kind of action hiding is or requires. Note that Shadowdancers don't get an ability to quicken hide checks or really change hide checks other than Hide in Plain Sight. Thus, your rogue is breaking the rules. Gently let him know.

By the way, if the opponent the rogue is attacking has darkvision, it's possible that DV alone will stop the hide check from working. Normal shadows mean nothing to someone with darkvision since they can see just fine in such conditions, except it's black and white. Not even the Darkstalker feat overcomes darkvision.

 

[Dandu]

Thus, your rogue is breaking the rules. Gently let him know.

By lighting up his character sheet in front of him.

By the way, if the opponent the rogue is attacking has darkvision, it's possible that DV alone will stop the hide check from working. Normal shadows mean nothing to someone with darkvision since they can see just fine in such conditions, except it's black and white. Not even the Darkstalker feat overcomes darkvision.

Unlikely. The Shadowdancer's ability does not rely on the opponents not being able to see in darkness, it simply allows the Shadowdancer to hide if shadows are present. The text says nothing about the ability not working if the enemy can see in darkness, nor does the description of Darkvision say anything about seeing through hide in plain sight.

Darkvision has about as much chance of seeing through Hide in Plain Sight as it does of seeing through the Darkness spell, which is to say none.

 

[lancealot501]

What if he was hiding to begin with, sneak attack with his primary and off hand 10d6, and spends a move action to hide in the monsters shadow(a -20 to the hide check)?