Help: how to make orc/human army match for 9th level PCs? (MY PLAYERS STAY OUT)

[Emiricol]

Well, I have a situation in which the PCs have encountered a small renegade military unit that has combined forces with stragglers from a shattered orc army. They were united by a charismatic and very evil barbarian of roughly the party's level. There are about 50 of them altogether, but they gain a couple every day...

They are holed up in a mountain valley. They have several watch towers, traps, and innumerable Alarm spells scattered all throughout the valley.

My question is, what would be a believable enemy composition and strategy to make this not just a cake walk for the PCs, who are 8th or 9th level? There can be *some* level inflation due to being literally at war for the last two years, but I prefer not to have an army of 9th level warrriors and adepts, if you see what I mean.

 

[haiiro]

Party composition?

What is the composition of your group's party? Are they planning a frontal assault, or do you expect them to scout out the area and take a more stealthy approach?

From a basic tactical standpoint, the orcs/humans will be fighting from defensive positions (cover/concealment), have traps and defensive spells at their disposal, and if their "base" is set up well, they will have ample opportunities to use ranged weapons against their attackers.

The less wary your party is, the more dangerous all of the above will be. I'm thinking of a topic from an old Dragon, "Tucker's kobolds," in which a band of kobolds with time to prepare were made very, very dangerous to the PCs.

If there are solid melee characters in the party, I wouldn't give the orcs/humans much of a chance in a toe-to-toe battle. But if they can wear the party down with traps, missiles, spells and (as a last resort) numbers and flanking, they might make for a challenging encounter.

I would say that area damage spells (fireball, etc.) would be the biggest problem for the band. Spreading out and having cover (for the REF save bonuses) would protect against this.

Just make sure their defenses aren't as bad as they were at Helm's Deep...

 

[Kyramus]

start with the barbarian, treat him as if he has the leadership feat. find the cohorts and followers.

the remaining people are just people who joined up and are plain orcs, plain but tough orcs. Consider giving them the full hp for being at war for the plain orcs.

tactics would be greatly used.
If they are facing a superior foe and know it, they might do a running battle. IE, group of 10 archers that the pc sees are firing arrows at them, when the PCs get to half the distance they fall back, another group of 10 archers start firing on the pcs until they are half the distance to the second group, then group 2 falls back leaving group one in position to start firing again.

Camouflasged pit traps, rock slides, boulder/log rolling.

Poison on the arrows, don't need it to be strong but with enough arrows coated and hitting, it pose to be a problem.

Nets. entangled characters will be easier targets.

alchemist fire to make a temporary and weak wall of fire. pc's may charge over it or jump over it. they might still take a little damage but the point is the orcs will nickel and dime them instead of charging headon into the main fight.

If the pcs manage to face off with the leader, that's when the rest of the orcs do pack tactics. Allow for surrounding tactics if the pcs don't have whirlwind attack, or even rank fighting. front ranks fighting with sword and shield, back ranks with glaives or long spears.

If you have seen the two towers, you can even have cavalry that surround the group with reach weapons. Obviously the effect is different as the pcs will quickly whup the orcs, but using it on foot with a rank of sword and shield orcs could prove to be a little more daunting.

mind you while the pcs are facing the orcs, the archers can still nickel and dime them from over head.

if you feel that the encounter is still too easy, give the front liners 1 level in barbarian and rages to give them bonuses to hit and damage. give the archers a couple of levels in fighter allowing for 3 feats which would be precise shot, point blank, and rapid shot.

keep in mind that the archers are more likely farther than 30 feet, BUT their precise shot means that they WON'T hit their own people when firing into the fight.

 

[Kyramus]

just an additional thought. read up on aid another action.

when the sword and shield orcs are facing the pcs, designate one orc and the orcs on the left and right will do aid another to give him either +2 to ac EACH or +2 to hit EACH, giving the primary orc a +4 to either hit or ac.
now multiply that to the rest of the orcs, each character that is surrounded would conceivably get at least one orc with a +4 to hit or ac. most likly 2 orcs, with two fighting solo. add the reach weapon fighting and they do aid another also????? I think you get the idea.

A 0 A
0 x 0
A 0 A

A= aiding another action by orcs.
x= char
0= orcs.

 

[maddman75]

Also note that if these troops have been at war for two years they likely deserve some levels. If they had just a little more than one fight a month, that would give them 26 encounters, or enough to rise to 3rd level (assuming EL=Level on average). If they fought more than that, they could be even higher. An army of 9th level warriors is a bit silly, but a large band of 3r-4th level veterans is quite believeable.

Other tips
- Dogs! Any army or fortress in a typical D&D setting should have plenty of dogs around the perimeter. THeir scent ability will cause serious problems should the PCs try to sneak in invisibly.

- Cover, as noted above.

- Watchful Guards. Two or three in each post, and regularly check in with each other. Give them bells or signal horns so they can quickly summon help.

- Leaders. Even with all the benefits, the grunts are going to get slaughtered. Its what being a 9th-10th level PC means. Make the leaders tough and smart. It should be like the movies -- they'll blow through the grunts until the BBEG and his henchmen come out, then throw down for a spectacular last fight.

 

[Al]

In the case of large numbers vs. high level PCs, be sure to use the large numbers.

Unlike computer games and Hollywood movies, the numerous orcish warriors are not going to wait around for the PCs to burst into their quarters and kill them one by one. They are going to go for an all-out mass assault.

If they spot the PCs coming to the fortress, have all hundred or so on the battlements. Use focus-fire. Have one hundred orcs fire at the party cleric. Then the party wizard. Etc. Grind them down through sheer forces of numbers. Do it at the outer range limit, as 20s hit anyway.

Add to this some nice traps, awkward chokepoints, some standard anti-siege defenses (boiling oil?), a few light siege weapons (ballistae, mangonels) and some good strategy, and you have a very tough encounter for the PCs. If they don't match it with decent strategy of their own, they are going to be dead meat. 9th level or no, they should not be able to conduct a frontal assault on a castle single-handed with no strategy.

 

[haiiro]

Terrain

The orcs/humans can also use the terrain to their advantage: they should have the high ground, and can stay out of reach of ground-bound PCs.

Also, obstacles such as ditches (with spikes, of course), pits (concealed or otherwise) and manufactured swampland (dirt + lots of water + churning) can make it hard for PCs to get to those pesky archers.

And Kyramus is right: those arrows should all be poisoned.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

These are orcs so the standard disciplined tactics might not be what you want (Aid other plus Ranseur with weapon focus and the disarm manuever or Guisarms, trip and Aid Other).

However, consider a few things: Use tactics which don't function off of skill but off of luck or abilities.

A PC fighter with magic fullplate has a much bigger advantage over an orc when they try to hit each other with swords than if the orc tries to trip him--for the trip attempt, the PC is probably only +2 or +3 better than the orc (assuming good stats and that the orc is a MM orc). Give three or four orcs trip attempts--especially with trip weapons like flails (or guisarms if you don't mind your orcs being organized) and now they all have +4 to hit the PC and have denied him a full attack action if he gets up.

Try grappling too. The first orc probably dies to an AoO and the first several orcs would probably lose their grapple checks, but if you give them even one barbarian level, the third or fourth orc will probably succeed in starting a grapple. Then all the rest pile on. If the PC uses a large or medium weapon, he's toast now.

Siege weaponry can be good too. The DMG rules are pretty sketchy (and, in some cases not too impressive) but they're a good start. Make them ignore armor, natural armor, and deflection bonusses. Personally I'd use the wielder's base attack and apply penalties for firing into melee (unlike DMG rules) so orcish siege engineers would have precise shot. I'd also up the damage. A ballista should do at least 4d6 damage. If there's an orc with precise shot and a ballista on the top of each tower, they could put a hurting on the PCs.

Use cavalry charges too. You don't want too high level foes--how about some elite orcish dire wolf cavalry?

Orc Ftr 3, Str 16, dex 14 weapon focus: heavy lance, mounted combat, ride by attack, spirited charge; ride skill +8 (+10 to stay in saddle). Charging with a masterwork lance, that would be +10 to hit for 3d8+9 points of damage per hit.

If you want real elite cavalry, make them Ftr 4s with weapon specialization for +11 to hit and 3d8+15 damage.

Pay attention to spells and effects that effect large numbers of allies or have no save. If the orc shaman casts bless, all the orcs get +1 to hit, damage, and saves and the PCs all get -1. Give the orcs a few first level bard wardrummers and now all of the orcs are attacking at +2 to hit and +2 to damage (the 4th level cavalry now attack at +13 and do 3d8+21 damage per hit).

For the heck of it, you could make the barbarian a wolf-rider too. Have him ride an advanced Winter Wolf (with prot from elements: fire cast on it) and give him some of the mounted combat feats. You could even make him a windrider (MotW prestige class) if you wanted him to be a real challenge. When the winter wolf charges, bites, (attempts a trip with a big bonus for high strength and large size), and then breathes, he can attack for triple damage with his lance or double damage with his greataxe. Give him a shot at a mounted PC and the wolf attacks the PC, breathes on the PC and the mount and attempts a free trip attack to remove the PC from the saddle and then the barbarian could swat at the PCs mount, finishing it off with his greataxe. If the wolf mount had spring attack (maybe the advancement should include a fighter level or two), they could even continue their movement after that.

 

[Grim]

also, orcish clerics could be used to greatly mess wiht teh pcs. Bless and Bane only help a bit, but any advantages is good. plus if they had particular favor, or if they were particularly high level, they could use thier turning ability on thier own troops, as an element domain allow you to do wiht elementals, but have them instead bolster thier troops.

Bards are also good for this. Have big orcish bards on the battlements with, perhaps, drums of sounding, which would increase the range, and possibly power of thier bardic abilities.

Disarming works too.

Have a special band of orc or Ogre spike chain wielders who also have improved disarm. ogres would use even bigger chains, which would not only increase damage, but their disarm attempts too. one orc attempting to disarm isnt that effective, but three or four, adn teh pcs will quickly run out of weapons to fight with. and if they try to pick them up, well, thats an attack of oppertunity right there. if they were trying to pick up a weapon from a dead orc, i would make that an even worse thing, an AoO against them, at an ad hoc +2 to attack.

Alcemists fire is another option. a band of 20 orcs with three round of alchemists fire is really nasty. Thats 60 vials, whihc ends up being about... [busts out ph] 1200 gold. not that much, comparitively, or 600 if crafted. Its even nastier if the pcs band stick together. splash damage really adds up.

On that note, qualls feather tokens can hurt too. Especially the tree kind. I dont remember where i found this, but they do some sort of damage upon opening, reflex save of course. Ask pirate cat about it. But at 100 gp per tree, you can surround 4 pcs (in a square) with but 12, or blanket the area with 16. Just have a band of 12 particularly tough orcs move forward, set off the trees, and the next round move away.

Instant cage like thing. (12 oaks close to each other is a bit hard to squeeze out of) Then have archers rain down upon them, or orcs wiht longspears stab inwards. Plus, an orc druid could easily cast entangle (lots of plant matter now) repeatedly, until the pcs fail there saves. Now that is nasty...

 

[Sir Whiskers]

While the suggestions above are good, I can't help wondering if we're missing the context. Try asking the following questions:

*Why has the barbarian gathered this group? What's his goal?
*Why is this group where it is?
*If they've prepared for an attack, who do they expect to defend against?

Has the barbarian formed this group for revenge? For looting? To conquer some territory? Because he fell afoul of a superior in another army? After answering this question, consider how it affects the group's makeup. For instance, if he's trying to kill a rival general, maybe he's recruited a couple good rogues for an assassination - everything else is to create a distraction.

You state it's a renegade group with a few orc stragglers. Renegade from whom? Another army? If so, their defenses may be geared toward fighting an army, not individual adventurers. If on the other hand, he's worried about a specific high-level foe, he may be expecting an attack by a few high-level flunkies or hirelings, which would change his defensive preparations.

Is the group holed up in the mountain valley because it's a natural defensive area? Or because there's something of value to be found in the valley? Did he fortify his army here to trap his opponent? If so, how?

Asking questions like these should guide you on what the barbarian's general strategy is. Within that strategy, select the tactics listed above that are most effective FOR THAT STRATEGY. Ideally, the players will scout things out first and, if they gather enough info, use the barbarian's strategy against him. Yes, the fight may not be as challenging this way, but I bet the players won't feel cheated. They'll be rewarded for making good decisions, which any GM wants to encourage. And if they instead lead with their chins, the barbarian may just hand them their heads.