Help me build a Spear-Chuckin' Pirate!

[BASHMAN]

I am building a character for a Planescape game. The character is a Krynn Minotaur, who I want to be a sailor. I want to have the Dread Pirate Presige Class, and also the Master Thrower prestige class (taking master thrower first because it gives quickdraw for free (a prereq for dread pirate) and also has good class skills and grants evasion.

I plan on 2 levels of master thrower, for my 6th and 7th level, then moving into Dread Pirate.

Base class choices I am considering: Fighter, the Thug Fighter Variant from UA, the Corsair Fighter Variant from Dragon Magazine #310. I might consider the Mariner base class from Dragonlance Age of Mortals, however, since they cannot get weapon specialization (which I really want to have), I will only do it as a last resort.

Requirements for Master Thrower-
BAB +5
Weapon Focus (Spear in my case)
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Slight of Hand 4 ranks

Requirements for Dread Pirate-
BAB+4
Appraise 8 ranks, Profession Sailor 8 ranks, Swim 4 Ranks, Use Rope 4 Ranks
Feats: Quickdraw, Skill Focus: Sailor (my DM allowed me to take that instead of weapon finesse, as I don't plan on a good dex).
Special: must own a ship worth at least 10,000 gp. Because this is a long term goal, I don't expect to get it until after 7th level anyway...

Your mission, is to build me a character with Master Thrower 6th & 7th level, and Dread pirate at 8th level. I want to have the skills to qualify for the prestige classes, and I want the feats to do that and to kick butt.

 

[szilard]

What sort of ability score spread do you have to work with?

-Stuart

 

[szilard]

My initial thought, by the way:

Ranger 3/Fighter 2
Feats at 5th level:
Weapon Focus (lvl 1)
Point Blank Shot (fighter bonus)
Precise Shot (fighter bonus)
Rapid Shot (ranger)
Endurance (ranger)
Brutal Throw (lvl 3)

The big problem is getting Appraise (and - to a lesser extent - Sleight of Hand) as a class skill. Due to cross-class skill maximums, 8 ranks is hard to get if you need full BAB through level 5 and levels 6 and 7 are already set.

-Stuart

 

[BASHMAN]

The big problem is getting Appraise (and - to a lesser extent - Sleight of Hand) as a class skill. Due to cross-class skill maximums, 8 ranks is hard to get if you need full BAB through level 5 and levels 6 and 7 are already set.

-Stuart

This is one of the reasons that I was thinking of the Corsair or Thug fighter variants, both get Appraise (I think. I know thug gets slight of hand), however, Corsair loses a 2 bonus feats, and Thug loses 1.

 

[Darklone]

I don't think it's possible to retain your full BAB and get Appraise and SoH without some sort of class from a pirately campaign setting.... Freeport anyone?

I'd combine rogue/thug for skill goodness, light armour only and some sneak attack extra damage... though you'll need 7 levels (rog3/ftr4) for WS then. You can forgoe one level of rogue and start with Master Thrower at level 7, but I'd rather have the extra sneak attack and Uncanny Dodge.

It would really be useful if your DM allows any feat that gives you some skills as class skills (e.g. Skill Prodigy from Kalamar or one from the FRCS). In that case I'd simply go with Thug 5.

 

[the Lorax]

I'm assuming that the favored class for Krynn Minotaurs is "Fighter". If so, the only way that makes any sense is to do it is:

Ranger 1
Ranger 1 / Fighter 1
Ranger 1 / Fighter 2
Ranger 1 / Fighter 3
Ranger 1 / Fighter 4

Getting your skill ranks is still going be an issue, but any extra skill points is useful. You NEED the skill points, 4x6 = 24 skill points at first level w/o Int bonus.

If the favored class for Krynn Minotaurs is Barbarian then swap out Ranger for Barbarian.

Now, as planar whale hunter and pirate with his harpoon, you just need to talk your DM into a swap of "Track" for a "Skill Focus" feat

In the end, I'm not a big fan of this build, if you want to hit Dread Pirate @ 8th, I'd rather just do: (and this build doesnt need to worry about favored class issues)

Rogue 1
Rogue 1 / Fighter 1
Rogue 1 / Fighter 2
Rogue 2 / Fighter 2
Rogue 2 / Fighter 3
Rogue 3 / Fighter 3
Rogue 3 / Fighter 4 (and then into Dread Pirate)

But then again, I like Sneak Attack dice and lots of skill points. And this build solves about all of your problems with out need of requesting special class variants or wasting precious feats on the ability to learn certain skills.

 

[BASHMAN]

Well, dread pirate can wait till 9th level.

I found a build that works, but leaves no skill points to spare!

Level Class-----Gain----------------------------------------- Skills
1 Corsair----- Corsair Ability, Point Blank Shot 8+4 (12)/4
2 Corsair------ Corsair Ability -----------------------2+1 (15)/5
3 Corsair----- Precise Shot -----------------------2+1 (18)/6
4 Corsair----- Weapon Focus: Spear, +1 Stat ---2+1 (21)/7
5 Corsair----- ----------------------------------2+1 (24)/8
6 Master Thrower--Quickdraw, Deadeye Shot, Brutal Throw 4+1 (29)/9
7 Master Thrower Evasion, ----------------------4+1 (34)/10
8 Corsair Skill Focus: Sailor, +1 Stat ---------------2+1 (37)/11
9 Dread Pirate Two Weapon Fighting, Seamanship, 6+1 (44)/12
Skills at Level 5
Appraise 8, Sailor 3, Use Rope 0, Swim 4, Slight of Hand 4.0, Craft: Scrimshaw 1 (DM has wonky requirement we all have a craft skill)
Skills at Level 6
Sailor +5
Skills at Level 7
Use Rope +4, Tumble +1

I would just barely now qualify for the class. What is lame is having to wait to take use rope until level 7 even though the concept is a sailor, and use rope has been a class skill since level 1. It is only lack of skill points and need to fulfill cockamamy prereqs that I didn't. Had to take 4 cross-class ranks of slight of hand!

 

[Machiavelli]

(Don't mind me, I'm just picky about charts and had to do this in notepad first to read it, anyway...)

Lvl Class            Gained                                  Skill ranks (Total)/Max ranks
1   Corsair          Corsair Ability; Point Blank Shot       8+4 (12)/4
2   Corsair          Corsair Ability                         2+1 (15)/5
3   Corsair          Precise Shot                            2+1 (18)/6
4   Corsair          Weapon Focus: Spear; +1 Stat            2+1 (21)/7
5   Corsair          ~                                       2+1 (24)/8
6   Master Thrower   Quickdraw; Deadeye Shot; Brutal Throw   4+1 (29)/9
7   Master Thrower   Evasion                                 4+1 (34)/10
8   Corsair          Skill Focus: Sailor; +1 Stat            2+1 (37)/11
9   Dread Pirate     Two Weapon Fighting; Seamanship         6+1 (44)/12
etc...

Skill Advancement
Level 5:
Appraise 8, Sailor 3, Use Rope 0, Swim 4, Slight of Hand 4.0, Craft: Scrimshaw 1 (DM has a wonky requirement that we all must have a craft skill)
Level 6:
Sailor +5
Level 7:
Use Rope 4, Tumble 1

Looks good, mechanically. It's a shame that the character progression is not what you'd expect for a pirate, and neither is the paltry sum of skills. HOWEVER, nobody needs to know just when he got those 8 ranks of Sailor, of those 4 ranks of Use Rope, and you should keep in mind that most characters built with more than one character level are, indeed, composed of a large portion of the mystical substance "handwavium". He looks good

 

[the Lorax]

Ok, if you're willing to wait until 9 to hit Dread Pirate, I still wouldn't waste time with the Corsair variant, and would still stick with Rogue/Fighter combo, but one like this:

Lvl Class            	Gained                      Skill Pts. (Tot.)/Max
1   Rogue          	Sneak +1d6, trapfind, Weapon Focus	2+4 (36)/4
2   Fighter         	Point Blank Shot			2+1 (39)/5
3   Fighter         	Precise Shot, Quick Draw             	2+1 (42)/6
4   Rogue          	Evasion; +1 Stat			8+1 (51)/7
5   Fighter          	~		        	       2+1 (54)/8
6   Rogue          	Sneak +2d6;Skill Focus: Sailor   	8+1 (63)/9
7   Master Thrower  	Deadeye Shot; Brutal Throw		4+1 (68)/10
8   Fighter 	Weapon Spec.; +1 Stat	           	   2+1 (71)/11
9   Dread Pirate     	Two Weapon Fighting; Seamanship       6+1 (78)/12

All the same abilities, plus a boat load of extra skill points (pun intended).

 

[BASHMAN]

Actually, I decided to forget dread pirate altogether! Why?

Ranger! Ranger has good Fort and Ref saves.
Ranger has full BAB like the Dread pirate.
Ranger has 2WF, just like Dread Pirate.
Ranger gets 6 skillpoints per level like the pirate, and also has Pro: Sailor and Use Rope on his list.
And best of all, Ranger can get a cool parrot or monkey as an animal companion. Arrrr Matey.

What ranger gets that I DON"T want: Track-- utterly out of character, unless it is used to track migratory patterns of whales or something.

Favored enemy, as written, is not what I should take. I would want favored enemy: Sea Monsters instead of having to chose between magical beast, dragon, animal, and abberation, of which a sea monster could be any of those 4 things. My proposal will be, a large or larger sea-monster that is not humanoid. This would include whales, giant squid, sea serpents, dragon turtles, eye of the deep, etc. I think he could go for it. 2nd Favored enemy will be Human (the best choice for a pirate, I think!)

So, as of now, I propose two different builds. Which do you prefer?
Build 1
Rogue 2 (2nd level is just for evasion)
Ranger 2 (Two-Weapon Fighting)
Fighter 2 (2 free feats)
Master Thrower 2 (2nd level gives IMPROVED evasion)
Continue as Fighter (till 4th)/Ranger/Rogue (keep it 2 levels below
ranger)

Feats at Level 5:
Brutal Throw
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger)
Track (Ranger-- hopefully can get this replaced by something else)
Level 6 (Fighter 2) take Weapon Focus: Spear, Weapon Focus: Cutlass
Level 7-8 Master Thrower
Level 9+ Fighter/Ranger

Problem with the build: Gives up some will save bonus, gives up some feats, has too many classes. Benefit- Improved Evasion at level 7.

Build 2
Ranger 2
Fighter 3
Master Thrower 2
Continue between Fighter and Ranger

Feats at Level 5
Weapon Focus: Spear (Lv 1)
Point Blank Shot (Lv 2)
TWF (Ranger 2)
Track (Ranger 1, hopefully replaced by something else)
Precise Shot (Fighter 1)
Weapon Focus: Cutlass (Fighter 2)

Advantages of this build: Get to master thrower at 6th level instead of 7th. More Feats. No xp/class issues. Disadvantages: No sneak attack(didn't really want it) and no Improved Evasion (really liked that). Less skill points.

So, what do you all think?