Help me calculate Race LAs

[Zulgyan]

I'm trynig to create some races for my homebrew world.
This time I'm creating an artic type of human with blue skin. Ones are pureblooded, others less pure.

Pure Izeroks:
+2 Cons +2 Wis -2 Inteligence.
Swim, Rope Use, Sail and Survival are class skills regarless of class.
+4 Survival in Artic Condicions.
Resistance to Cold: 5
Human Bonus Skill points
Clan Ability
Favored Class: Barbarian, Spirit Shaman
Languages: Frost Tongue
LA: 1?


Common Izeroks:
+2 Cons -2 Inteligence.
Swim, Rope Use, Sail and Survival are class skills regarless of class.
+2 Survival in Artic condicions.
Human Bonus Skill Points
Clan Ability
Favored Class: Barbarian, Spirit Shaman.
Languages: Frost Tongue


I need help balancing the races and calculating LA. I'm very open to any suggestion. Clan ability is similar to a bonus feat. Each clan will have a special ability similar to a feat.

 

[Dreadlord]

Pure Izeroks:
+2 Cons +2 Wis -2 Inteligence.
Swim, Rope Use, Sail and Survival are class skills regarless of class.
+4 Survival in Artic Condicions.
Resistance to Cold: 5
Human Bonus Skill points
Clan Ability
Favored Class: Barbarian, Spirit Shaman
Languages: Frost Tongue
LA: 1?

Give them a -2 on Cha, then I would say LA 1 is ok.

 

[starwed]

I don't think they need any more penalties. They're about the same power level as an aasimar/tiefling, and those are considered a slightly weak LA +1. Although they have several abilities, they're not ones which really synergize well, and there's no +4 stat boost. Compare this to the +4 Str, +2 Con and powerful build of a goliath... ^_^

I'm not sure I like the flavor of a race granting permanent class skills, but I don't see any balance problems.

 

[Arkhandus]

This would more properly be a House Rules Forum thread. For future reference, you'd be more likely to get responses to such things in the HR forum. Some folks, like myself, hardly ever skim the D&D Rules forum, but check the House Rules forum (usually) daily.

I'm not sure what "Clan Abilities" are, but I've just assumed for now that they're something feat-equivalent or whatnot in usefulness. If they're no more than two feats worth of power, then they probably won't throw off the accuracy of my suggestions. You should probably describe what you mean by "Clan Abilities."

Pure Izeroks are a rather weak +1 Level Adjustment, but too potent for a +0 Level Adjustment. I'd recommend giving them the standard human bonus feat, and increasing the Cold Resistance to 10 points probably. Or just keeping it at 5 points but also granting a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against cold effects.

Common Izeroks are fine for LA +0 as-is, but are on the stronger end (better than regular humans except in versatility, but at least slightly inferior to dwarves). Don't give common Izeroks the standard human bonus feat.

Permanent class skills as racial benefits are neither unprecedented nor silly nor overpowered. And besides, it's not like the Izeroks are giving Hide, Move Silently, Bluff, Tumble, and Use Magic Device as permanent class skills; only in those sorts of cases would it be of questionable balance. Oriental Adventures gives humans a permanent class skill based on clan, along with their favored class being specific to their clan (clanless humans in OA just get the standard human favored class flexibility and no permanent class skill). The Rokugan book (not WotC-produced, but approved as official Oriental Adventures material) has a feat that gives two permanent class skills when taken, and can be taken multiple times (the Courtier class therein gets that feat for free every half-dozen levels or so). The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting has various regional feats which give permanent class skills, including the Cosmopolitan regional feat (for Waterdeep and some other regions) which gives one or a few (I forget) permanent class skills of the character's choice. D20 Modern has a plethora of starting occupations for characters (they're sorta like feats, but each character only gets one SO at creation and never gets another) which pretty much ALL give one or more permanent class skills of choice (from a small list appropriate to the occupation).



I've played, and DMed for, several characters with LAs/ECLs above +0. Heck, at some points my Rokugan/Oriental Adventures campaign was half composed of hengeyokai PCs...... My Rhunaria campaign has had two half-dragons and at least one aasimar that I can remember. I've seen several half-ogres played in The 13 Kingdoms. I played a hobgoblin rogue/fighter in T13K once myself, for gladiator matches (fighting alongside half-ogres, half-orcs, hobgoblins, wood elves, humans, and more). And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few right now, too. My point is, I've had more than enough experience using and observing LA/ECL races in play for extended durations, plus I'm an inveterate tinkerer and rules examiner.

 

[Artoomis]

...Anyone who thinks Pure Izeroks are too strong for +1 LA, or Common Izeroks too strong for +0 LA, is inexperienced and naive to matters of Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level. ...

That's a rather broad and strong remark.

For one, I don't recall you looking at the human skill point bonus - that plus the "Clan Ability" being the equivaloent of a free feat (albeit with no choice) make them quite simialr to LA +0 humans to start with.

Pure Izeroks: Definately +1 for the unbalanced stats alone. With the additional stuff, a fairly strong +1, but not enough for a +2, I think

Common Izeroks: Strong LA +0 for balanced stats, bonus skill points, Clan Ability would be a slightly weak +0, the rest take it to a strong +0, but not enough for a +1.

 

[Arkhandus]

Deleted because I absolutely loathe arguments and people throwing around false logic and straw men to refute my points.

 

[Artoomis]

... If you really feel the need to nerf everything caster-related, go ahead, but you'll just be encouraging more godawful Frenzied Berserker immortals and Deepwood Sniper untouchable assassins and such.

I find your attitude somewhat insulting and verging on violating the board's terms of service, so I will only answer once to avoid taking myself down that same path.

The stats are unbalanced with no balancing factors - in fact, quite the opposite, there are more bonuses. I did not state (or even imply) anything about any stats being more important that any other - I do not know what started you on that tirade. The fact is it is two +2s and only 1 -2, that's unbalanced and needs some balancing factor or it rates a level adjustment.

Well, instead of some balancing factor, this race has more bonuses. Clearly signifcantly strongly than the base +0 LA race of human - that makes it LA +1, minimum. I do not see enough here to justify an LA +2, so there you have it: +2 is really a judgement call, but +1 is pretty darn objective. My judgement is there is not enough here for a +2, but more than enough for a +1.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Arkhandus,
There's a world of difference between making generalisations and value judgements on other peoples' reasoning ability... the vast majority of who you neither know or have interacted with personally.

If your reason and intelligence are so great, why do you not practise what you preach and not make generalisations yourself? While it may be a common (and incorrect) thing that most people do, I would hope you could try not to do it yourself, since you recognise it isn't a good thing, hmm?

---
All that being said, I do agree on the proposed LAs. Nice work Zulgyan on your races. I'm curious about what your Clan abilities are? Perhaps you could share those details, if you don't mind?

 

[Arkhandus]

I'll edit away what apparently has been found offensive, but as usual, everyone on this particular forum likes to argue for no good reason and just ignore valid points whenever I get involved.

With the last comment of my previous post, I was merely pointing out quite validly that magic/psionics are not the only, nor even the most, powerful options in D&D and that discriminating against players who like to play magic-users or psionicists is just plain foolish, because there are plenty of ways to break melee/ranged weapon character builds as well.

I merely pointed out my observations, when my previous assertions were just argued against and ignored without offering any valid rationale.

I was going to try typing out refutes to your points, Artoomis, and how you are inadvertently pursuing logical fallacies and ignoring or forgetting some facts, but after trying to type it out I realized I was just going to get more "that's just what you think and you are rude, this is what I think and I am right" responses as I usually get on this forum. I rarely bother with this forum because of the lack of objectivity and scientific reasoning used to evaluate rules material; it's too often just matters of opinion and debate around here, as far as I usually see.

Thus, I will not bother trying to present logic and fact. It is a pointless endeavor and I always end up ranting, rambling, or getting mildly offensive when people ignore my facts and refute them with non-facts and straw men. I don't want to bother. Arguing is godawful stupid and a waste of time for everyone.

There is a very good reason why I almost always avoid this forum. These matters are basically it.

 

[dvvega]

From the point of view of a DM that sees the PHB races as the major population of the standard world and that is why the LA adjustments for creatures are higher than expected - to keep the population focused on the PHB races.

Pure Izeroks:
With the use of the human bonus skill points, the clan ability and the limited use +4 Survival skill I would make these human equivalents.

Now we add in some ability adjustments, including a major adjustment (CON) which affects HPs. Not as strong as STR obviously but the physical skills do warrant balancing in general. Then an added WIS modifier. They are getting adjustments to two saving throws in this manner. They really do need some balancing factor here. Assume there isn't any that's a +1 LA immediately when combined with the other stuff so far.

Added class skills ... this is a Feat equivalent without argument (Skill Knowledge from Unearthed Arcana and it's in the SRD). In fact it is 2 feats (since the feat only grants 2 skills).

Then you add in resistance to Cold (I would have given them Endure Elements instead limited to the Cold).

And 2 favoured classes which is pretty strong. I would make this choose a favoured class at 1st level from the list.

I'd think +2 personally, however if this race is to be playable by characters then +1 would be fine by adjusting the resistance, and making them set their favoured class at first level. Even then it's a strong +1 but that isn't a big deal.

Common Izeroks:
Are closer to Humans, but still warrant a +1 (weak perhaps) so the +0 is perfectly fine for PCs.