D&D 5E Help Me Design This Class

[steeldragons]

How about this as a replacement for "Sneak Attack?"

Soul Fury
When making a melee weapon or Touch spell attack against a single target with your Spirit Guide within 5' of the target, you attack effects more than just the target's body as the unseen spirit assaults the target's psyche/aura/spiritual essence. Successful strikes deal an additional d6 of psychic damage to the target. This damage increases as you gain levels as shown on the Spiritwalker's progression chart (as stipulated above, increased by 1d6 every other level to a maximum of 6d6 from 13th on).

 

[77IM]

I like it. I would allow ranged attacks and ranged spell attacks to work with this too -- just "attack". The main constraint here is the positioning of the spirit guide.

I think what I like about it is if your spirit guide has defensive benefits (even something as small as aura of +2 AC) then there's a natural trade-off between offense and defense. If you want to hit people for more damage, you've got to move the spirit guide away from you (lowering your defenses) or else wade into melee (often a dangerous move).

This could play into your idea from earlier about selecting different round-by-round benefits for the spirit. Maybe instead, the spirit has an aura that is good for you and bad for enemies, and you just position it differently round-by-round.

 

[steeldragons]

Well, the idea is to have it on par with Sneak Attack, but instead of it being situationally dependent on having "advantage" (which your Spirit Guide can also purposely instill per their original feature) or having an ally within 5e...your ally is your Spirit Guide.

There are other features that would have your SPirit Guide farther away from you than that. So you can have them do those things, or you can have them be "close" and get this situational benefit.

So, I'm very much against the idea of it letting you apply the damage to ranged attacks...i.e., basically, "all the time/every attack you make."

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I like it. I would allow ranged attacks and ranged spell attacks to work with this too -- just "attack". The main constraint here is the positioning of the spirit guide.

I think what I like about it is if your spirit guide has defensive benefits (even something as small as aura of +2 AC) then there's a natural trade-off between offense and defense. If you want to hit people for more damage, you've got to move the spirit guide away from you (lowering your defenses) or else wade into melee (often a dangerous move).

This could play into your idea from earlier about selecting different round-by-round benefits for the spirit. Maybe instead, the spirit has an aura that is good for you and bad for enemies, and you just position it differently round-by-round.

This.

I was thinking some manner of poison or necrotic damage, like the witch is using the evil eye to make you wounds turn bad very quickly, but I like this whole idea you guys have going.


Other thought, for both this and the warlock subclass: a cantrip like Druidcraft/thaumaturgy/etc for witches. Preserve or sour crops or food, make animals behave strangely, make birds speak cryptically, make a room or area darker, make a person see figures in their peripheral vision, etc.

I'd also like to see a cantrip or 1st-2nd level spells to do things like the following, if they fail a save:

Screw with the target's luck. They gain disadvantage ontheir next attack or skill check, if they fail an attack, they hurt themselves (half the damage they would have dealt), or an ally of your choice within range. If it doesn't involve doing damage, they fall prone.

Maybe one that makes them mistake friend for foe on a failed save.

Frighten the target, described as creating visions of their own sins/faults/etc

Make the target attack themselves

Sickness. The target takes extra necrotic or poison damage if it takes any damage before your next turn.

Reaction, target fails an attack with a weapon against you or an ally. The target's weapon slips from its hands, the target is disarmed on a failed save. (Would disarmed and prone be too much?)

Reaction, target fails a spell Attack that would deal damage. The attack targets the target, and they roll again.

Eldritch Blast is boring, and the warlock needs spells that feel more "Curse" like, imo. The witch definitely could use some minor curses of various kinds.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Oh, I like the idea that it's the spirit doing the damage. Psychic or necrotic, though. Hmmm?

I also like the idea that your spirit guide must be within 5' of you to provide benefits, but 5' of your target to do the damage. That would allow it to be used for ranged attacks, even spells, but (as 771M points out) that forces you to choose between two options or expose yourself to risk by going into melee. That feels like a nifty trade-off to me. Might have to rethink spirit guide benefits, but seems like it's worth considering that.

Also have to figure out the rules for the spirit guide moving, in that case. Unlike a character, I would suggest the spirit guide can either move or attack (that is, do bonus damage) but not both.

 

[steeldragons]

Psychic. There's no reason it needs to necromantic in flavor. Necrotic is dark, negative, destruction/death energy. Someone dealing in the spirit world has as much reason or access to that as to radiant or elemental. Depends on the planes/spirits they're interacting with.

As a base class feature, for an overarching "Spiritwalker" base class, I think the "neutral" psychic damage is more fitting...and can be fluffed in character/story however one wants.

Subclasses could/might swap this for some other type of damage, maybe, as one of their features? But necrotic, to me, says delving into evil forces...and I don't see that as a central theme/power to...well, shamans or witches (or, what I'm conceptualizing as a third subclass, "dreamwalkers").

Anyway, my two coppers/rationale. You can, of course, reflavor/fluff it into whatever type of damage you want.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I havent followe the whole thread, but I just want to say that I hope this class makes it on the Dm's guild. There's already a platinum seller shaman on it, and this one is, IMHO, way interesting, more than a refluffed-charisma-casting-druid.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Oh jfc I just hit "refresh" instead of "new tab" and lost a long post. Gaaaaaaah. Ok, trying to piece together...

I work on class design a little differently than others. In a virtual sense, I write notes on index cards and then start rearranging them on the table. I also really like to understand the structure I'm putting things into. What's the pattern that the final result is going to fit? With that in mind, here's what I've been thinking about:

1) Class Name
I really like the name "Spiritwalker" but to me that feels like a sub-class not a base class. Base classes are all nouns that would be recognizable (as opposed to parseable) to a lay reader, even if the D&D connotation is different. Maybe "Paladin" isn't a common word, but it is a word that described a narrow category of people. (C.f. "The Paladin").

Words that fit that requirement that I can think of are Shaman and Witch, and of the two I think Shaman is a bit more general. So for the purposes of this post I'm going to go with Shaman.

2) Subclasses
Each of these need to have a great name, a distinct and flavorful concept, and some distinguishing mechanics. Some attempts:

Witch or maybe Crone: the fairy-tale witch.
Ideas for Mechanics:
- Emphasis on (or perhaps unique access to) enchantments and charms
- Familiar?
- Polymorph?
- "Chilling Cackle". Fill in the mechanical effect, but too much fun.
- Improved charms

Spiritwalker: doesn't just communicate with spirits, but is partially able to step into their world
Ideas for Mechanics:
- "Spirit Walk": able to partially enter the spirit world, useful for scouting, divination, and maybe combat advantage
- Enhanced spirit companion?
- Capstone: completely enter spirit world, somewhat akin to becoming Ethereal

Witch-doctor or Medicine-man: spiritual leader of primitive tribe/group. Emphasis on healing and divination.
- Improved healing (spells and potions)
- Some kind of "see the future" abilities

3) Gifts
In general I like choices that add flavor/specialization to a class, but are available across sub-classes and to some extent distinguish unique flavors of that class. Fighting Style is an example, but my favorite is Warlock Pacts and Invocations for their breadth. The new ones in UA are great.

Since this is a 1/2 caster class, maybe there's room for a similar concept? I'll call them "Gifts" as a placeholder. What could some of the general categories of such Gifts be?
- Single-use "spells" (e.g. Polymorph, Scrying)
- Improved curses
- Improved potions
- Improved charms
- Improved spirit companion

This could be modeled either like Invocations (i.e. pick X of them, where X increases with level and you can change them when you level) or Pacts (i.e. pick one early in your career and never change it.)

Thoughts?

4) Sub-class Template
Most (all?) classes have sub-class abilities that fit a certain pattern. E.g., Cleric 1st level ability is some kind of self-preservation that at 6th can be applied to others, and 8th level ability increases damage.

What are some of the categories that Shaman sub-classes might have? My inclination would be to figure that out first, then figure out which levels they should appear at. Some ideas/examples:
- Self-preservation reaction
- Additional effect to placing a curse
- Additional/alternate effect to Soul Fury
- Additional kind(s) of potion that can be created
- Group buff (vaguely analogous to Paladin auras)
- Capstone: damage or incapacitation of enemies
- Capstone: summon a particular flavor of spirit (e.g. healing spirit, warrior spirit, trickster spirit...)


That's all for now. Need to do some work.

 

[Tony Vargas]

1) Class Name
I really like the name "Spiritwalker" but to me that feels like a sub-class not a base class.

AFAIK, it's never been used for a D&D class before, which'd be a plus. No baggage.

Words that fit that requirement that I can think of are Shaman and Witch, and of the two I think Shaman is a bit more general.

Witch is fraught, anyway: it's been an 'NPC Class' (as in a wildly overpowered NPC the whole party is supposed to fight), in the old print Dragon mag going back to 0D&D. It's been a sample 'how to build a variant class' in DMGs. It's even been an official sub-class. It has connoted evil in the past. And, of course, in going-out-of-fashion language, it's the female equivalent of Warlock, and in more acceptable modern usage, it can be a self-identification for a neo-pagan/Wiccan believer.

Shaman is used with some level of sensitivity, today, to refer to traditional animists, a more acceptable alternative to witch-doctor or medicine-man. In D&D, it's been a humanoid-monster spellcaster, and several different classes, PrCs and/or sub-classes.

Witch-doctor or Medicine-man

Both might be considered insensitive or dated, at least. The former was also a humanoid-monster tribal caster of some sort. I don't recall either being used in D&D since.

Ironically, the dictionary definition of Sorcerer seems pretty close.

 

[Guest 6801328]

In general I think it's a mistake to let class concepts from previous editions lay claim to class names. If namespace never gets reclaimed from retired material then 100 years from now we'll have Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, and a bunch of classes with 10 syllable invented names. (And maybe not even the Rogue.)

Agree about the irony of the Sorcerer, and that occurred to me, too. I would so much rather have that great name get used for something more distinctive, rather than just a slight variation of Wizard class.