Varianor Abroad
Explorer
Blame 3E. Admit you have burnout. Take a couple month vacation. Play other game systems at Gen Con. 
Help me, fellow gamers! You're my only hope!
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
- Start date
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Sometimes it's easier to hit the reset button by playing a simple, straightforward character and focusing on having fun without worrying about being precide, metagaming, and anything else.
I'm talking about playing a few sessions as the dumb-as-rocks barbarian whose whole schtick is all power attack all the time. Cut back to simplicity, kill some monsters and take their stuff and just enjoy rolling dice ... after a bit you'll feel recharged and ready to get more into character without metagaming again.
I'm talking about playing a few sessions as the dumb-as-rocks barbarian whose whole schtick is all power attack all the time. Cut back to simplicity, kill some monsters and take their stuff and just enjoy rolling dice ... after a bit you'll feel recharged and ready to get more into character without metagaming again.
Psimancer
First Post
I know your pain; I became that guy too…
My epiphany occurred when the regular GM had a night off, and, as second chair GM, I stepped behind the screen. Our regular GM acted like a right royal SOB as a player, and after the game I asked myself, “Is that what I do; is that what I sound like…?”
It changed me. It changed the way I made, played and developed my characters.
Nonlethal Force has the right idea – write! Write as much as you can; background, side adventures, antidotes, anything, everything…
I now develop my characters to the nth degree, and immerse myself in it. Every action I make is prefaced by “…what would the character do…”, and not “…what would I do…” I have become so concerned with staying in character that I don’t have time to scrutinize the rules or the word of the GM. I was, however, very conscious of making sure that the characters worked within the context of the group.
The GM noticed the change and the other players noticed the change too. And it improved the game. And most importantly, I enjoy the game more too...
***
We did also try the ‘system change’ approach, but in my heart I am still that guy (a rules lawyer?), and it wasn’t long before I knew that system perfectly too, and I was drawing the same meta-game conclusions… so it was merely a short term solution. In the long term, it was me that needed to change, not the system…
My epiphany occurred when the regular GM had a night off, and, as second chair GM, I stepped behind the screen. Our regular GM acted like a right royal SOB as a player, and after the game I asked myself, “Is that what I do; is that what I sound like…?”
It changed me. It changed the way I made, played and developed my characters.
Nonlethal Force has the right idea – write! Write as much as you can; background, side adventures, antidotes, anything, everything…
I now develop my characters to the nth degree, and immerse myself in it. Every action I make is prefaced by “…what would the character do…”, and not “…what would I do…” I have become so concerned with staying in character that I don’t have time to scrutinize the rules or the word of the GM. I was, however, very conscious of making sure that the characters worked within the context of the group.
The GM noticed the change and the other players noticed the change too. And it improved the game. And most importantly, I enjoy the game more too...
***
We did also try the ‘system change’ approach, but in my heart I am still that guy (a rules lawyer?), and it wasn’t long before I knew that system perfectly too, and I was drawing the same meta-game conclusions… so it was merely a short term solution. In the long term, it was me that needed to change, not the system…
Arrgh! Mark!
First Post
A lot of good advice here.
Just a small thing; do you roleplay with "And then Krusk says' KRUSH!"
or do you say "CRUSH!"?
Weirdly enough, take yourself out of your character. Before you make a snide comment, think 'what would Krusk say'?
And then 'Krusk says..."
It removes the direct impact of you yourself facing the regenerating monster, and you knowing everything there is to know about the regenerating monster. Instead it's Krusk facing the regenerating monster and not know what to do but hit it and roleplay.
Krusk saying "Dat ting.. it gets better from me hittin it!" it a ton better than "Damn thing's four CR's above us and has regeneration.. run!"
Basically, take your ego in a step; I'm not saying this in a bad way, I'm just saying be quieter at the table with non gaming stuff, and louder with gaming stuff. It took effort for me to do it but it paid off hugely.
Just the advice from a recently snide, mechanics minded rules lawyer ex-DM who learned to appreciate the game again.
Just a small thing; do you roleplay with "And then Krusk says' KRUSH!"
or do you say "CRUSH!"?
Weirdly enough, take yourself out of your character. Before you make a snide comment, think 'what would Krusk say'?
And then 'Krusk says..."
It removes the direct impact of you yourself facing the regenerating monster, and you knowing everything there is to know about the regenerating monster. Instead it's Krusk facing the regenerating monster and not know what to do but hit it and roleplay.
Krusk saying "Dat ting.. it gets better from me hittin it!" it a ton better than "Damn thing's four CR's above us and has regeneration.. run!"
Basically, take your ego in a step; I'm not saying this in a bad way, I'm just saying be quieter at the table with non gaming stuff, and louder with gaming stuff. It took effort for me to do it but it paid off hugely.
Just the advice from a recently snide, mechanics minded rules lawyer ex-DM who learned to appreciate the game again.
Wik
First Post
Ya see, people - this is what happens when you design games. You wind up seeing nothing but the game! I think it's pretty much a professional hazard, or something.
Best advice I can give? change your surroundings. If you usually play with minis, try the game without them for a bit. Simply by changing what you associate with "gaming", you can actually change the game experience.
Sit in a different chair. Use a different character sheet. Write in pen instead of pencil. Use different dice. Eat different snacks. All these things can help you see the game itself differently, perhaps from a different perspective.
And put a delay on your voice. Don't speak unless it's in character, or directly related to your character, at least for a little while.
Basically, slowly wean yourself off metagame.
Best advice I can give? change your surroundings. If you usually play with minis, try the game without them for a bit. Simply by changing what you associate with "gaming", you can actually change the game experience.
Sit in a different chair. Use a different character sheet. Write in pen instead of pencil. Use different dice. Eat different snacks. All these things can help you see the game itself differently, perhaps from a different perspective.
And put a delay on your voice. Don't speak unless it's in character, or directly related to your character, at least for a little while.
Basically, slowly wean yourself off metagame.
coyote6
Adventurer
Go to a novelty store. Buy one of those toy zappers -- e.g., looks like an ink pen, but when you click it, it delivers an electric shock. Every time you start to think (or say) badwrongthings, click the pen.
Ta-da! Soon, even the thought of CRs, ELs, or other statistics will induce twitching and tremors.
Ta-da! Soon, even the thought of CRs, ELs, or other statistics will induce twitching and tremors.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I'm deliberately playing a naïf in a game I'm in. It helps a lot, because I'm constantly being reminded not to be that guy. (Of course, I also have a copy of the Power Gamer's Guide to Wizards I peek at occasionally longingly, but little steps ...)
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
What's motivating you to behave like that? Are you worried about character/party survival, do you like to win, or something else?
-blarg
-blarg
Gothmog
First Post
Hey Mouseferatu,
Every post I've seen you make here you sound like a really insightful, cool guy- so hopefully you'll be open to the advice I'm going to give, even though (especially from your point of view as a game designer) it might sound insane....
And that is to completely relinquish the numbers of the game. Don't keep track of them. Don't have a character sheet in front of you at all. Of course you'll have to clear this with your DM, and make sure he's cool with keeping track of your character's numbers, but I speak from experience- this is EXACTLY what you need.
A few years ago, several of the players in a 3E game were metagaming so heavily they simply were mechanically chewing up numbers and spitting out responses based on calculations. These guys used to be awesome roleplayers, but somehow they ran into the same problem you have- and they realized they weren't having as much fun anymore. We talked about it and agreed I would take over keeping track of their character's stats- they only kept track of spells per day, and their equipment. They didn't fiddle at all with AC, HP, saves, BAB, skill ranks, none of that stuff. They knew what level they were, roughly what skill ranks they had, their feats, and thats it. During the game the DM (me) would let them know roughly how injured they were, but never gave a # of HP left.
What we found was that within three sessions, my players got back into their groove and put a lot more effort into their characters- developing personalities, background, motivations, mannerisms, etc. They quit worrying about numbers, feat chains, prestige classes, and probabilities, and put all that useless effort that detracted from their fun into trying to identify with their characters as more than a set of numbers. It was really worthwhile doing this, and now my players prefer it if I keep track of the numbers in ANY system I run for them since it frees them up to really get into character and visualize the game more. At least give it a shot for a few sessions- it will be hard to give up the numbers at first, but after a few sessions, its really liberating. I've tried it as a player too, and I loved it. Its definitely the way to go if you're wanting to distance yourself from metagame thinking and be able to identify with your character more.
Every post I've seen you make here you sound like a really insightful, cool guy- so hopefully you'll be open to the advice I'm going to give, even though (especially from your point of view as a game designer) it might sound insane....
And that is to completely relinquish the numbers of the game. Don't keep track of them. Don't have a character sheet in front of you at all. Of course you'll have to clear this with your DM, and make sure he's cool with keeping track of your character's numbers, but I speak from experience- this is EXACTLY what you need.
A few years ago, several of the players in a 3E game were metagaming so heavily they simply were mechanically chewing up numbers and spitting out responses based on calculations. These guys used to be awesome roleplayers, but somehow they ran into the same problem you have- and they realized they weren't having as much fun anymore. We talked about it and agreed I would take over keeping track of their character's stats- they only kept track of spells per day, and their equipment. They didn't fiddle at all with AC, HP, saves, BAB, skill ranks, none of that stuff. They knew what level they were, roughly what skill ranks they had, their feats, and thats it. During the game the DM (me) would let them know roughly how injured they were, but never gave a # of HP left.
What we found was that within three sessions, my players got back into their groove and put a lot more effort into their characters- developing personalities, background, motivations, mannerisms, etc. They quit worrying about numbers, feat chains, prestige classes, and probabilities, and put all that useless effort that detracted from their fun into trying to identify with their characters as more than a set of numbers. It was really worthwhile doing this, and now my players prefer it if I keep track of the numbers in ANY system I run for them since it frees them up to really get into character and visualize the game more. At least give it a shot for a few sessions- it will be hard to give up the numbers at first, but after a few sessions, its really liberating. I've tried it as a player too, and I loved it. Its definitely the way to go if you're wanting to distance yourself from metagame thinking and be able to identify with your character more.
