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Help me "get" The Grudge...(spoilers)

John Q. Mayhem

Explorer
Spoilers if you haven't seen it yet.

I saw The Grudge the other day, and while I am usually very good at figuring out movies, this one left me with a couple questions. If the precipitator of the curse was rage, why was the only one of the dead family that didn't appear the one with the rage? Why was there a cat ghost?

I couldn't make out the faces of the ghosts all the time. It looked like it was sometimes the mother and somethimes Toshio; is this true?

That's pretty much all. I didn't really like the ending, I admit. Endings like that are so common nowadays.
 
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Suggest putting "spoilers" in the title.

The curse could also be evoked by sadness, I think that was the case here. Either that or it's the targets of the rage, not the originator, that come back.

The best theory I've heard about the cat is that it was drowned with the boy, so it was somehow merged with his ghost. That actually explains quite a few things.

Yes, mother and Toshio are both ghosts.

I didn't much care for the ending, either. You're right about it being cliche. Overall, though, the movie was creepier than most American fare -- though nowhere near as good as "The Ring".
 

I actually thought that the cat might be the father's ghost. If it was the sorrow of the mother and Toshio that brought about the curse, this movie wins the Most Misleading Since The Village Mayhem Scorn Award.

The ghosts in Ring and Grudge looked almost exactly the same, except for the hair-lady. Both solid horror movies, IMO.
 

John Q. Mayhem said:
I actually thought that the cat might be the father's ghost. If it was the sorrow of the mother and Toshio that brought about the curse, this movie wins the Most Misleading Since The Village Mayhem Scorn Award.
I hadn't considered that take on it, interesting. Another is that it's the father's rage manifesting through the mirages of the mother/child/cat. Overall, I guess I just chalked it up to some seriously bad karma tied to murders. Whether it's the father's rage, the victims' sadness, or the sadness transformed after death, I don't know.

Since the Japanese have a strong animist tradition, it's also possible that the ghost(s) are not so much the victims' spirits lingering on after death, as it is the birth of a new anima that is representative of that event. In a very literal sense, the event takes on a life of its own.

I don't know much about ancestor spirits, but that's another big part of Japanese cultural heredity. By my understanding, there is a certain tradition of "vengeful ancestor spirits", though.

Dunno. I hadn't really analyzed the movie in that way. Overall, I think I like the anima explanation best, though. Amusingly enough (to me, at least), that'd make the BBEG in the movie fey, rather than undead -- by D&D definitions. I think I'm getting some campaign ideas.
 



John Q. Mayhem said:
If the precipitator of the curse was rage, why was the only one of the dead family that didn't appear the one with the rage?

From how I understood the police officer's explaination of the backstory, the rage /murder is what infused the evil and ghost to the place. The evil and ghosts were in turn taking out their rage on the living that visited the house.

John Q. Mayhem said:
Why was there a cat ghost?

I was thinking about that too, but there is perhaps one key _frame_ that you may not have noticed if you blinked... during the flashback imagry of the husband attacking the wife, you may notice in his hand he is using the cat to beat her face.

In my opinion, since the cat was (undoubtably) killed that same time it is a ghost just as the kid and mother.

John Q. Mayhem said:
I couldn't make out the faces of the ghosts all the time. It looked like it was sometimes the mother and somethimes Toshio; is this true?

Yes - I think it was different people at different times. I have a feeling that there was a pattern to whose image we saw when, but I wasn't that sure... (i.e. all the ones outside the house were the kid's face, all the ones inside the house and corporal were also the kid, anything inside the house and still "non corporal" was the mother, i think -- something like that)

But I wasn't paying that much attention to that particular detail.

John Q. Mayhem said:
That's pretty much all. I didn't really like the ending, I admit. Endings like that are so common nowadays.

I didn't like the ending or the movie as a whole. It just did nothing for me.

That's just my opinion though. Some people I know loved it, though they tend to like "that startled me and made me jump" sorts of movies. I, on the other hand, just wasn't as entertained as I hoped to be -- different strokes for different folks.

But this is all just my rambling opinion, I don't mean to go off topic with it :)
 
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The Grudge vs. Ju-on

Saw them both, and I liked Ju-on better, as the time frames and story line progressed systematically and the arc over time was much smoother and made more sense. The plots were different, and I thought Ju-on was more realistic in a sense as the characters behaved as (ir)rationally as you might think they would. What didn't work for either movie was that the ghost didn't follow any rules, per se.

In each, whoever entered the house would eventually die, but the methods seemed to be amorphous. In The Ring, by contrast, we learned that the victims died of a heart attack caused by extreme fear after they had watched the video and not passed it on to anyone within 7 days. Simple, easy rules. Grudge and Ju-on were a bit confusing as to the methods of death, and there didn't seem to be any way out once the person crossed the threshold.

Grudge and Ju-on used the same house and many of the same scenes at the beginning and end, but Grudge failed to match the sense of linking characters that Ju-on possessed. Ju-on had a policeman that had retired early after the case of the people that had died before the new family, and his daughter and her friends were beautifully woven into the story as they saw each other in the house, her grown up, just before he was to die in 'his time'. Ju-on masterfully switches at that point to the future, to the grown daughter and to the roles of the other survivors as each are hunted down after such a long period. Grudge tried in a different way to link Gellar's character with that of Pullman's, and though it was done rather well, it didn't make as much sense to the story.

The time lines were easier to follow in Ju-on as the movie told you which character the next scenes were about, and though not in chronological order it made the most sense from the perspective of events relating to the house. Grudge told us more about the motivations of the cursed family and as to how they were killed in gruesome detail, but Ju-on's subtle deliveries with essentially the same information made the movie scarier as each layer was peeled away as new characters revealed a little more of the evil puzzle. Grudge hands us big chunks as Pullman and Gellar meander through the house 'together', revealing the stalker mom and jealous dad and retracing all of the hints of the aftermath.

What got us thinking was what about all those cops swarming the house taking pictures and such? Did the entire police force jump over balconies, or were they to be stalked down at age 65 when the ghost catches up to them? We know the real estate agent got it, but what about the home inspector, the appraiser, the contractor and designer that fixed up the place for sale? Rules for the ghosts' activities and revenge were never defined, and this was the most troubling part of each movie for me.
 



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