D&D (2024) Help Me Hate Monks (Less Than I Currently Do)

[Weiley31]

Whatever the heck Voldo is

Ye Olde BDSM Gimp enthusiast.

 

[Weiley31]

Sometimes, when I think about Non-Kung Fuing the Monk, I go BATTLE NUN!!!

Even tho, technically, that's what the Paladin/Cleric is.

 

[Bae'zel]

I really was happy that WotC renamed the Monk's "Ki" to "Focus" in 2024. That small change helped me reconsider how the Monk could be portrayed in different campaign settings (using D&D as a toolbox, I mean).

edit: however, the current Monk is still about dashing, flipping and jumping all over the place and doing flurries of blows. I still can't see this class representing a tavern-brawling fat Friar very well.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I still can't see this class representing a tavern-brawling fat Friar very well.

If you look at the role of Friar Tuck in the original stories, he gives the outlaws communion, and other religious functions believed to be essential at the time the stories were written. I.e. it's his role as a priest that is important, not a fighter. Which would make cleric a better match in D&D terms.

It should be noted that some monks and friars are ordained priests, some are not.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes according to the 5e PHB(rule book). The acolyte background makes it clear that there are priests without clerical powers. Clerics are also priests, just not ordinary ones.

Some priests have the cleric class, especially PCs. Some can cast spells but do not have the cleric class. And some priests do not cast spells at all (the might be nobles or commoners).

Some cleric PCs are priests. Some are not. Some are prophets, mystics, cultists, evangelists or otherwise divinely chosen.

Ergo the D&D class called cleric is NOT the same as a cleric in standard English usage. Occasionally they overlap.

Even more so in modern usage, where is is used more commonly to indicate a leadership position within a religious organisation rather than a priest (Islam doesn't have priests).

As for acolyte, clerics do not need to take that background, and characters who do take that background do not need to be clerics.

 

[Bae'zel]

If you look at the role of Friar Tuck in the original stories, he gives the outlaws communion, and other religious functions believed to be essential at the time the stories were written. I.e. it's his role as a priest that is important, not a fighter. Which would make cleric a better match in D&D terms.

It should be noted that some monks and friars are ordained priests, some are not.

Oh I certainly agree with you, I've just seen arguments on some online communities that a D&D Monk can portray medieval European Friar Tuck types and I pretty much disagree.

I mean, the core abilities of the 2024 D&D Monk is using a bonus action and focus points to nimbly "ninja dash" around the battle field.

 

[ezo]

edit: however, the current Monk is still about dashing, flipping and jumping all over the place and doing flurries of blows. I still can't see this class representing a tavern-brawling fat Friar very well.

You can reskin the jumping, running up walls, etc. into feats of strength involving lifting, breaking, etc.

For example...

Hard as Stone (replaces Unarmored Defense)
Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Stregnth modifier + your Wisdom modifier. (or STR + DEX if you prefer)

Fist of the Hammer (replaces Steo of the Wind)
You can spend 1 focus point as a bonus action to gain advantage on Strength checks until the start of your next turn. During this time the amount of weight you can lift, drag, or carry is doubled and attacks you make against objects deal double damage.

 

[Maxperson]

Some priests have the cleric class, especially PCs. Some can cast spells but do not have the cleric class. And some priests do not cast spells at all (the might be nobles or commoners).

Some cleric PCs are priests. Some are not. Some are prophets, mystics, cultists, evangelists or otherwise divinely chosen.

Ergo the D&D class called cleric is NOT the same as a cleric in standard English usage. Occasionally they overlap.

Even more so in modern usage, where is is used more commonly to indicate a leadership position within a religious organisation rather than a priest (Islam doesn't have priests).

As for acolyte, clerics do not need to take that background, and characters who do take that background do not need to be clerics.

Clerical prophets, cultists, mystics and evangelists would ALSO be priests of that god. You don't have to be in a formal priesthood for you to be a priest of a god as D&D uses the term. Those would be other titles or possibly subclasses attached to the cleric.

And you are correct that clerics don't need to take the acolyte background. That background is built into the class itself, so it would be redundant unless the players wants to choose it for RP reasons.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Oh I certainly agree with you, I've just seen arguments on some online communities that a D&D Monk can portray medieval European Friar Tuck types and I pretty much disagree.

I mean, the core abilities of the 2024 D&D Monk is using a bonus action and focus points to nimbly "ninja dash" around the battle field.

Sure. There are a lot of martial artists in western media, but they aren’t usually religious. Which is why the class works much better if you dissociate it from that aspect.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Sometimes, when I think about Non-Kung Fuing the Monk, I go BATTLE NUN!!!

Even tho, technically, that's what the Paladin/Cleric is.

I have a nun in the family. I'd take battle nun over friar tuck any day

I do think the term monk is a key point of confusion here. The trope the monk class is drawing on is one where religious mystical techniques and fighting training merge, in a kind of disciplined path of physical cultivation. It makes sense if you are thinking about Shaolin, but it doesn't even makes sense for most other Buddhist monk orders. If you are using western style monks for that you might want to draw on groups like the essenes, the desert fathers, the order of the assassins, etc, rather than monks in the friar tuck mold.