Help me make HIM.
- Thread starter RisnDevil
- Start date
Nyaricus
First Post
actually, he sounds like a devil to me. RisnDevil described this BBEG as "someone who stays behind the scenes" > Yugoloths are in-your-face mercenary types; and the picture itself lends to this guy being immune to fire > a trait of Devils, but not Demons.
So id definitively call this guy a devil. If you want, you could (conceivibly) just call this guy a Fiend, and make a new outsider type that can be of any evil alignment. this guy could be the most powerful of the race, kinda like Balrogs (I mean, Balors) for demons, and Pit Fiends for Devils. I like the chance, challenge and idea of creating a new race entirely; but RisnDevil, please give feedback. I know you are not too familiar with this, but would you like that; for us to create a new race of infernal hellions entirely? or stick with the (appropriate) type of Devil??
So id definitively call this guy a devil. If you want, you could (conceivibly) just call this guy a Fiend, and make a new outsider type that can be of any evil alignment. this guy could be the most powerful of the race, kinda like Balrogs (I mean, Balors) for demons, and Pit Fiends for Devils. I like the chance, challenge and idea of creating a new race entirely; but RisnDevil, please give feedback. I know you are not too familiar with this, but would you like that; for us to create a new race of infernal hellions entirely? or stick with the (appropriate) type of Devil??
The whole new Fiend type would be really cool, and kinda fit the guy. On terms of alignment, and how "evil" he is, I think that rather than "picking" an alignment, I will just describe general outlook and attitude, and see what you guys think.
Mace is "evil" only because it is what suits his whims. Mace is strong, VERY strong, which is why he feels he can do as he wishes. He does not go out of his way to be either evil or good, though he seems to "default" to evil acts. He is VERY fatherly, though. If you are one of his "children," he would declare war on heaven and hell to help you out.
One last thing....
If there is any way to incorporate the following in, as a new ability, it would fit him. Mace is able to more or less spend time "focusing," during which time he can raise his Strength. Not unlimitedly, but VERY high. And no, this is not like any Dragon Ball Z characters. Thanks for everything so far. If you need/want to know anything else, I can explain more about the campaign, and how he fits in/is pulling strings if it would help.
Mace is "evil" only because it is what suits his whims. Mace is strong, VERY strong, which is why he feels he can do as he wishes. He does not go out of his way to be either evil or good, though he seems to "default" to evil acts. He is VERY fatherly, though. If you are one of his "children," he would declare war on heaven and hell to help you out.
One last thing....
If there is any way to incorporate the following in, as a new ability, it would fit him. Mace is able to more or less spend time "focusing," during which time he can raise his Strength. Not unlimitedly, but VERY high. And no, this is not like any Dragon Ball Z characters. Thanks for everything so far. If you need/want to know anything else, I can explain more about the campaign, and how he fits in/is pulling strings if it would help.
jaker2003
Explorer
Well, we could make him a true Neutral . . . that fits the "He does not go out of his way to be either evil or good" and keep him a Fiend . . . that fits the "he seems to "default" to evil acts."
That fits Yugoloths . . . oh, yugolth traits:
Outsider (Evil)
Immunity to poison and acid
Resistances: cold 20, fire 20, electricity 20
Summon Yugoloth (Sp): you get the idea
Telepathy
Yugoloths are indeed built tough
As far as 'focusing for strength' . . . DC XX Concentration check to recieve/maintain a +10 enhancement bonus to Strength? Requireing that Mace makes his check each round actually gives your players a chance to shake him up a bit by increasing his DC for a round by damaging him.
Let's list what we know we want for Mace:
Large Outsider (Evil)
HD: ?d8+? (?hp)
Initiative: ?
Speed: ?
AC: ? (+? Dex, +? Natural, . . . )
BAB/Grapple: +?/+?
Attacks: Large Morningstar 2d6+ Str bonus + Infernal Wound, Slam 2d8+Str bonus, uh . . . wanna give him a wicked Vorpal Bite 2d8+Str bonus?
Face/Reach: 10? by 5?/10? ft.
Special Attacks: Barbed Defense, Infernal Wound, Summon Yugoloth
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft., Focused Might, Immunity to poison and acid, cold resistance 20, fire resistance 20, electricity resistance 20, telepathy.
Saves: Fort +?, Ref +?, Will +?
Abilities: Str ?, Dex ?, Con ?, Int ?, Wis ?, Cha ?
Skills: ?
Feats: ?
--------------
Environment: uh . . . Hell?
Organization: Solitary or with ?-? 'children'
CR: ?
Treasure: 1 wicked-looking Morningstar
Alignment: Neutral,MOTHER- uh, nevermind
Advancement: ?
Wanna alter the Summon Yugoloth ability to summon one of his 'children' instead of the standard Yugoloths?
That fits Yugoloths . . . oh, yugolth traits:
Outsider (Evil)
Immunity to poison and acid
Resistances: cold 20, fire 20, electricity 20
Summon Yugoloth (Sp): you get the idea
Telepathy
Yugoloths are indeed built tough
As far as 'focusing for strength' . . . DC XX Concentration check to recieve/maintain a +10 enhancement bonus to Strength? Requireing that Mace makes his check each round actually gives your players a chance to shake him up a bit by increasing his DC for a round by damaging him.
Let's list what we know we want for Mace:
Large Outsider (Evil)
HD: ?d8+? (?hp)
Initiative: ?
Speed: ?
AC: ? (+? Dex, +? Natural, . . . )
BAB/Grapple: +?/+?
Attacks: Large Morningstar 2d6+ Str bonus + Infernal Wound, Slam 2d8+Str bonus, uh . . . wanna give him a wicked Vorpal Bite 2d8+Str bonus?
Face/Reach: 10? by 5?/10? ft.
Special Attacks: Barbed Defense, Infernal Wound, Summon Yugoloth
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft., Focused Might, Immunity to poison and acid, cold resistance 20, fire resistance 20, electricity resistance 20, telepathy.
Saves: Fort +?, Ref +?, Will +?
Abilities: Str ?, Dex ?, Con ?, Int ?, Wis ?, Cha ?
Skills: ?
Feats: ?
--------------
Environment: uh . . . Hell?
Organization: Solitary or with ?-? 'children'
CR: ?
Treasure: 1 wicked-looking Morningstar
Alignment: Neutral,
Advancement: ?
Wanna alter the Summon Yugoloth ability to summon one of his 'children' instead of the standard Yugoloths?
Starting at the top, and working down....
Initiative/Speed - Mace is/can be fast, REALLY fast. (Be advised, the party is not going to encounter him until AT LEAST nearly Epic levels, so making him "too powerful" is not a problem
) As a result of this enhanced speed, I would give him a higher than base speed, and probably a constant haste-like effect. (Also be advised, if it seems like I am just making a pure cheese BBEG who can do anything, this was one of my Player's characters in another game system ![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
)
I wouldn't give him a vorpal bite, but I would give him some form of modified Rend, allowing him a free bite attack, that delivers a bleeding wound.
I would totally get rid of the summon ability. Mace would not deign himself to stoop to summoning any help, less yet another Yugoloth. That having been said, I would put in some mechanic that would let his "children" summon him, when in dire need.
For Stats, he would already have a high base Strength and Con. Low dex because of size and muscle-mass. He is cunning and wise, though not charismatic. (His idea of charisma is "flexing someone into submission.)
For feats, he fights...alot and well. Cleave, Great Cleave, and probably the old Supreme Cleave abilitym are a MUST. I like the Brutal Hit feat that came from the boards, along with Relentless Assault. (For justification, you can make his Hit Dice count as Fighter levels.)
Environment - The Blood War is happening in the abyss, right? If so, that is his environment.
Organization - Solitary. He doesn't really travel with his "children." They are more like "servants" that he sends out to do his bidding, though he cares for them.
-----------------
Thanks for everything so far, I think I am going to like how he turns out.
Initiative/Speed - Mace is/can be fast, REALLY fast. (Be advised, the party is not going to encounter him until AT LEAST nearly Epic levels, so making him "too powerful" is not a problem
) As a result of this enhanced speed, I would give him a higher than base speed, and probably a constant haste-like effect. (Also be advised, if it seems like I am just making a pure cheese BBEG who can do anything, this was one of my Player's characters in another game system )I wouldn't give him a vorpal bite, but I would give him some form of modified Rend, allowing him a free bite attack, that delivers a bleeding wound.
I would totally get rid of the summon ability. Mace would not deign himself to stoop to summoning any help, less yet another Yugoloth. That having been said, I would put in some mechanic that would let his "children" summon him, when in dire need.
For Stats, he would already have a high base Strength and Con. Low dex because of size and muscle-mass. He is cunning and wise, though not charismatic. (His idea of charisma is "flexing someone into submission.)
For feats, he fights...alot and well. Cleave, Great Cleave, and probably the old Supreme Cleave abilitym are a MUST. I like the Brutal Hit feat that came from the boards, along with Relentless Assault. (For justification, you can make his Hit Dice count as Fighter levels.)
Environment - The Blood War is happening in the abyss, right? If so, that is his environment.
Organization - Solitary. He doesn't really travel with his "children." They are more like "servants" that he sends out to do his bidding, though he cares for them.
-----------------
Thanks for everything so far, I think I am going to like how he turns out.
Cartigan Mrryl
First Post
Okay... might I give out some stats? I'll give some justification for the stats later on in the post.
NORMAL STATS
Strength: 16 (To start with... remember.. the focus.)
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 21
Wisdom: 14
Intelligence: 15
Charisma: 16
Alright as for justification:
Strength: He is strong, but he can get stronger. I'd consider lowering the strength increase per round by half, to 5. That way, he won't get too strong too quickly. Think about it. In 10 rounds, if he did that constantly, he'd be as strong as/stronger than a dragon. That's WAY too much power for a large creature, even a fiend. SO starting at 16 will make him exceptionally strong naturally, not a herculean creature who only gets more titanous.
Dexterity: He is a dextrous warrior, if he is in ONE of the nine hells, then he would have to be dextrous, OR defiantly strong. so if you want to up his strength, I suggest you
-1 to dexterity, +1 to Strength for every point of strength you want more, that way, he'll be able to deliver huge attacks, but hitting his enemies might become a problem.
Constitution: He has been in a Hell for a LONG while, right? His natural fiendish heritage would make him more enduring, much more enduring than the average human.(Remember, average human = 10.)
Wisdom: He doesn't seem like a guy full of wisdom, but he'd still be wise to a point, yet again, due to his time in a Hell. He's merely above average, not overly wise, but not reckless, although you could decide to make him extremely rash and lower his wisdom, but if you're going to make him reckless and leave his wisdom, that wouldn't work, I tend to RP the characters according to their stats, although you might be different.
Intelligence: Yet again, he seems MORE brawn than brain. But not too much. He should be smart, intelligible enough to comprehend things and know what to do, but he shouldn't be smart enough to know EVERYTHING. That would make him too strong.
Charisma: Whether you know of it or not, Fear is a large part of charisma, charisma isn't only looking good or inspiring lust/friendship/kindness/bravery, it's also about inspiring fear, hatred, and all the other things that make kids awaken in the middle of the night, sure that something just ducked under their bed. It's the ability to hold the center of attention, a completely plain, untalkative guy could have a high charisma, if he walked into the room and his presence was so immense that everyone turned to him and watched him for a while, if all talk ceased when he showed his face - even though he didn't say a word and wasn't pretty or even pretty ugly, I'd gie him a Cha score of 18+.
So yeah, that's what I think, you could either add the Fiend template's stat modifiers on there or not, I don't know. His stats are actually the same as this one Dwarf I ran.. after about 15 levels. He was good, these stats aren't too odd, only the Constitution, but anyone can be extremely hardy/enduring.
So yeah... Ja ne!
I'll post more later...
Anyways, where was I? Oh, yes.
As for the Large Morningstar, make sure that he has the (quite obvious) ability that any weapon he wields is treated as (insert alignment of your choosing here). Ummm... make his bleeding bite deal 1D6 and a "Wounding" Fort Dc of... 15? If they save, they aren't wounded, if they fail the save, they take 1-3 points every round?
So something ludicrous to make it more expansive. Make him have to grapple the enemy in order to deliver his bite attack. To add some icing on the cake... Make him Immune to fire, and maybe Electricity and Acid or Poison. (I'd suggest making him immune to poison, that way your PC's won't be able to poison him and take down his Strength.)
Also, if you really insist on "Uber-ing" him...
UBER MACE
Str: 23
Dex: 16
Con: 45
Wis: 17
Int: 18
Cha: 21
And that'd only be because you want to make him hard. Also, if you want to make a plot device-ish thing, make it so that as he's about to pound one of the PC's into the ground or tear it to shreds, one of his children could call him, thereby saving the PCs (An annoying trait I've discovered of people around here is how they want their PCs to be saved from anything, including a TPK [although I don't blame them for trying to avoid a TPK, although only because it's time consuming to have to ake all those characters all over again.])
Feedback?
NORMAL STATS
Strength: 16 (To start with... remember.. the focus.)
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 21
Wisdom: 14
Intelligence: 15
Charisma: 16
Alright as for justification:
Strength: He is strong, but he can get stronger. I'd consider lowering the strength increase per round by half, to 5. That way, he won't get too strong too quickly. Think about it. In 10 rounds, if he did that constantly, he'd be as strong as/stronger than a dragon. That's WAY too much power for a large creature, even a fiend. SO starting at 16 will make him exceptionally strong naturally, not a herculean creature who only gets more titanous.
Dexterity: He is a dextrous warrior, if he is in ONE of the nine hells, then he would have to be dextrous, OR defiantly strong. so if you want to up his strength, I suggest you
-1 to dexterity, +1 to Strength for every point of strength you want more, that way, he'll be able to deliver huge attacks, but hitting his enemies might become a problem.
Constitution: He has been in a Hell for a LONG while, right? His natural fiendish heritage would make him more enduring, much more enduring than the average human.(Remember, average human = 10.)
Wisdom: He doesn't seem like a guy full of wisdom, but he'd still be wise to a point, yet again, due to his time in a Hell. He's merely above average, not overly wise, but not reckless, although you could decide to make him extremely rash and lower his wisdom, but if you're going to make him reckless and leave his wisdom, that wouldn't work, I tend to RP the characters according to their stats, although you might be different.
Intelligence: Yet again, he seems MORE brawn than brain. But not too much. He should be smart, intelligible enough to comprehend things and know what to do, but he shouldn't be smart enough to know EVERYTHING. That would make him too strong.
Charisma: Whether you know of it or not, Fear is a large part of charisma, charisma isn't only looking good or inspiring lust/friendship/kindness/bravery, it's also about inspiring fear, hatred, and all the other things that make kids awaken in the middle of the night, sure that something just ducked under their bed. It's the ability to hold the center of attention, a completely plain, untalkative guy could have a high charisma, if he walked into the room and his presence was so immense that everyone turned to him and watched him for a while, if all talk ceased when he showed his face - even though he didn't say a word and wasn't pretty or even pretty ugly, I'd gie him a Cha score of 18+.
So yeah, that's what I think, you could either add the Fiend template's stat modifiers on there or not, I don't know. His stats are actually the same as this one Dwarf I ran.. after about 15 levels. He was good, these stats aren't too odd, only the Constitution, but anyone can be extremely hardy/enduring.
So yeah... Ja ne!
I'll post more later...
Anyways, where was I? Oh, yes.
As for the Large Morningstar, make sure that he has the (quite obvious) ability that any weapon he wields is treated as (insert alignment of your choosing here). Ummm... make his bleeding bite deal 1D6 and a "Wounding" Fort Dc of... 15? If they save, they aren't wounded, if they fail the save, they take 1-3 points every round?
So something ludicrous to make it more expansive. Make him have to grapple the enemy in order to deliver his bite attack. To add some icing on the cake... Make him Immune to fire, and maybe Electricity and Acid or Poison. (I'd suggest making him immune to poison, that way your PC's won't be able to poison him and take down his Strength.)
Also, if you really insist on "Uber-ing" him...
UBER MACE
Str: 23
Dex: 16
Con: 45
Wis: 17
Int: 18
Cha: 21
And that'd only be because you want to make him hard. Also, if you want to make a plot device-ish thing, make it so that as he's about to pound one of the PC's into the ground or tear it to shreds, one of his children could call him, thereby saving the PCs (An annoying trait I've discovered of people around here is how they want their PCs to be saved from anything, including a TPK [although I don't blame them for trying to avoid a TPK, although only because it's time consuming to have to ake all those characters all over again.])
Feedback?
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Thia Halmades
First Post
I could've sworn that there are multiple demon types across the books which look similar to this particular monstrosity. The Klurrci... thingy from Friend Folio comes to mind (They're EXTRA friendly) as well as the CR 12 bish from the MM. Easier to redesign than reinvent.
LCpt. Thia Halmades
LCpt. Thia Halmades
Cartigan Mrryl said:
This doesn't look very epic to me. As an example, check the stats of the Balor and Pit Fiend, which (at CR 20 and 18 respectively) should be considerably less powerful than Mr. Mace is supposed to be.
SRD said:
They're both designed to be ranged combatants rather than melee, using SLA's from a distance before allowing enemies to get close, so their stats won't be exactly like Mace's. But we should at least take these two as a base- no stats below 20 I'd say, except perhaps DEX since RisnDevil suggested he doesn't have much. Then again, if Mace is supposed to be fast, and he has low DEX, you'll need to give him Improved Initiative and/or Superior Initiative as feats to make up for it if you want him to be able to go first in combat.
I suggest the following:
Strength: 42
Dexterity: 19
Constitution: 36
Intelligence: 33
Wisdom: 32
Charisma: 21 (RisnDevil also suggested relatively low CHA.)
This will give him lots of skill points, assuming his HD is somewhere above 20 (as it should be using the Balor and Pit Fiend as examples again- Balor has 20, PF has 18), and if you max out Spot and Listen then only a truly legendary Rogue or Assassin will be capable of sneaking up on him. STR 42 means that he's considered strong among the fiends he rules, before he even starts focusing to gain more; stats for the Archfiends in Book of Vile Darkness (which is usually considered quite low-power for those entities among fans of high-level play, particularly those at dicefreaks) suggest these are reasonable. If there are limits to how far he can "pump up" with his focusing ability, I'd say it shouldn't be less than 92- and personally I'd let him go higher if he does get the time to prepare.
I'd also suggest moving this discussion to the Creature Catalogue area; the posters there are among the most practised monster makers at ENWorld so they'll be the most helpful.
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Elder-Basilisk
First Post
So you want him to be epic and to look like the picture?
I'd suggest starting with a Barbed Devil/Hamatula (CR 11)
Modify his stats a bit to make him different and tougher.
Advance by HD to 25 HD in order to make him large.
Use the feats he gains from advancing by level: give him the exotic weapon proficiency feat, weapon focus, and improved critical with the Warmace from Complete Warrior. Obviously, as a large creature, he'd use a large (base damage 3d6) warmace.
Add two levels of Rogue and one level of Blackguard.
From there, apply the Epic Level Handbook's Paragon template.
And stat out the mace as an epic weapon. Maybe +6 marrowcrushing unholy warmace of speed for starters. Viola. You have an epic worthy BBEG.
I'd suggest starting with a Barbed Devil/Hamatula (CR 11)
Modify his stats a bit to make him different and tougher.
Advance by HD to 25 HD in order to make him large.
Use the feats he gains from advancing by level: give him the exotic weapon proficiency feat, weapon focus, and improved critical with the Warmace from Complete Warrior. Obviously, as a large creature, he'd use a large (base damage 3d6) warmace.
Add two levels of Rogue and one level of Blackguard.
From there, apply the Epic Level Handbook's Paragon template.
And stat out the mace as an epic weapon. Maybe +6 marrowcrushing unholy warmace of speed for starters. Viola. You have an epic worthy BBEG.
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