Help me nerf the druid

[Dykstrav]

I'm really digging Pathfinder, but it does have one glaring thing that I want to change.

Druids are still a bit too over-powered to me. They can do a bit of everything, and I don't quite want them to be so versatile. They also have a grab-bag of odds-and-ends abilities that are situationally useful and I'd rather not keep up with. I'm trying to make my homebrew's druids a sort of cleric/mage hybrid. Here's what I have in mind. I'd appreciate insights or suggestions.

• Give druids most of the class features of the cleric. Keep the weapon and armor proficiencies and restrictions of the basic druid class. Keep the druid skill list, but give them the cleric's skill points.
• Give druids the choice to either channel positive energy (as the cleric class feature) or to gain wild empathy, and perhaps a few other class features as they gain levels (such as trackless step).
• Druids gain two cleric domains, choosing from the Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water, or Weather domains. If they so desire, a druid may give up access to one domain to gain an animal companion.
• Add the various beast shape spells to the druid's spell list. Instead of spontaneously casting cure spells, the druid can spontaneously cast beast shape spells.

What do you think?

 

[Noumenon]

This isn't explained well. You haven't explained what you're going to take away from the druid, only what you're going to give them, so it sounds like you're just adding a bunch of abilities to the druid... until I get to the line here a druid has to give up a domain to get an animal companion, which implies you're taking away the animal companion. Are you saying you're taking away everything as a default and then going back to add things in? In that case, you might as well just make a new class, called the "nature cleric."

 

[IronWolf]

Druids are still a bit too over-powered to me. They can do a bit of everything, and I don't quite want them to be so versatile. They also have a grab-bag of odds-and-ends abilities that are situationally useful and I'd rather not keep up with. I'm trying to make my homebrew's druids a sort of cleric/mage hybrid. Here's what I have in mind. I'd appreciate insights or suggestions.

• Give druids most of the class features of the cleric. Keep the weapon and armor proficiencies and restrictions of the basic druid class. Keep the druid skill list, but give them the cleric's skill points.
• Give druids the choice to either channel positive energy (as the cleric class feature) or to gain wild empathy, and perhaps a few other class features as they gain levels (such as trackless step).
• Druids gain two cleric domains, choosing from the Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water, or Weather domains. If they so desire, a druid may give up access to one domain to gain an animal companion.
• Add the various beast shape spells to the druid's spell list. Instead of spontaneously casting cure spells, the druid can spontaneously cast beast shape spells.

What do you think?

If anything it looks like you are giving them even more versatility? I agree with the other poster it seems you are giving them more and/or morphing to a nature cleric.

Maybe you'd be better off finding a class you like in 3.5 that represents the druid image you have in mind and then replace the Pathfinder Druid with that?

Or maybe I am missing what you are going for with the changes you list.

 

[Stormonu]

The changes I think I would make are:

1) Wild Shape lasts 1 hour not 1 hour/level. Perhaps add a feat that would let wild shape last longer (Extended Wild Shape, perhaps 2 hour/wild shape use).

2) Trackless Step grants a +4 bonus against being tracked, plus an additional +1 bonus per level thereafter (an absolute power that renders a skill useless at 3rd level is a bit much).

3) Change Venom Immunity to Venom Resistance, giving the druid a +4 bonus against poisons (rendering a whole class of monsters worthless against the druid takes away a lot of challenges. If undead can lose their sneak attack invulnerability, I think the druid should lose his "invulnerability" as well). Perhaps give an additional +1 bonus at 13th, 17th and 20th.

My experiences with the druid has been that their shapeshifting ability is the one that causes the most headaches; primarily staying in animal shape and casting spells via Natural Spell. I really would like to see Natural spell go away or have additional requirements that make it rare for a druid to have.

 

[Ashtagon]

Why not just ban the Natural Spell feat? Even without splatbooks, it's is the most obviously broken feat in existence.

I agree with you in general on the "no absolute immunities" thing though (except really obvious things like fire elementals vs fire)

 

[Dandu]

Have you looked at the 3.5 edition Player's Handbook 2? They have a Shapeshift variant that made the druid less broken for 3.5; seems like it would be something to look at for inspiration if you want to do something about Wildshape. It also takes away the animal companion, iirc.

Offering a choice between the Shapeshift ability from the PHB2 in place of Wildshape vs an animal companion seems like it would bring the Pathfinder druid down a notch.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Trailblazer has a take on the druid I'm fond of.

• No spontaneous casting of summon.
• Remove animal companion, replace with speak with animals at will. Combined with a modification to wild empathy, the DM decides when or if the PC druid gets another mini on the board with a bundle of extra actions per round.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why does the PF Druid need nerfing? Seems like it got nerfed rather badly while the Cleric and Wizard gained power, at least in terms of class abilities. Of course, the spell nerfings presumably more than made up for those boosts, since ultimately, it was being full casters and prepared spellcasters that made them so powerful above all else. So, assuming the spell lists were nerfed equally, why on earth would the Druid need more nerfing over the other two? They were basically all equal in 3.5 (and non core allowed, Sorc joined their ranks).

Is it because PF thus far is sparse on prestige classes, and while Druid 20 gave interesting stuff aside from spells, a "Wizard 20" or "Cleric 20" in play seldom had more than 5 levels in the actual base class?

(I go with the opinion that it's hatred through lack of understanding or dislike of how "different" the class is from other spellcasters. The same reason, to a less extreme degree, that causes you to occasionally get some moron who thinks the monk is overpowered because they get all these mystical supernatural abilities unlike anything a Fighter gets.)

Oh, also...Fun With Editing!

Bards are still a bit too over-powered to me. They can do a bit of everything, and I don't quite want them to be so versatile. They also have a grab-bag of odds-and-ends abilities that are situationally useful and I'd rather not keep up with.

 

[Celtavian]

I haven't experienced any problems with the druid in game. Doesn't seem like it needs a nerf.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Why does the PF Druid need nerfing?

Depends on the viewer. For me, it is because for the seat at a table for one player, a druid character brings:

• One full-progression spellcasting character, yet can morph into an very capable melee-ist
• Whatever beasts that spellcasting character spontaneously summons to the battlefield, sometimes a pair or more of creatures.
• The pet of the spellcasting character, sometimes equal or better than the worth of the party melee-ist PC.

Easily three+ character's worth of actions on a board. Most encounters are predicated on how much a character can accomplish per round, spells per round, attacks per round, actions per round. Getting items that grant extra actions per round are pretty enticing (boots of speed, belts of battle) yet the druid brings all that and more as a base class feature.

That's primarily what I see in the druid's arsenal that needs taming.