Help me price some magic items
- Thread starter smetzger
- Start date
der_kluge
Adventurer
jaults said:
Very well.
From the Artificer's Handbook:
Breakdown:
Command-word activated (2x/day) 1 minute duration (caster level 1 effect), spell "expeditious retreat", spell level 1.
The way the creation system works is it is based on the number of spell slots of a given level it takes to create an item. This item is fairly easy because it's a low level spell, and it will be cheap, because it's based on a 1st level caster.
sor/wiz 1; 1 mins/per level (personal spell)
"use-per", command-word activated items cost 4 spell slots, and this particular item is usable two times per day, so that's an additional +5. Since we're building this with a 1st level spell, those slots are 1st level spell slots. Remember, you can cast 1st level spells utilizing slots of higher level spells. So, you can cast all your 2nd level slots as 1st level spells if you have to.
That's 9 total spell slots. The caster level is 1 (1 minute duration), and the spell level is 1.
The formula for determining cost is:
10gp(spell level + caster level -1) * number of spell slots^2.
Now, that might seem complex, but I just typed it in from memory, so after you work up a few, it gets really easy.
So, plugging our numbers in, we get this:
10gp(1 + 1 - 1) * 9^2 = 10(1) * 81 = 810gp. So, your cost of 720gp was not far off. Simple items like this aren't horribly expensive, and the costs don't vary much. Some of the more expensive items, according to the DMG vary wildly from our system. Chaos Diamond, for example. Compare the cost of the Chaos Diamond from the 3.0 DMG and then compare it to the cost of the same item from the 3.5 DMG. Way off. It's actually still too cheap when broken down utilizing our system in the 3.5 DMG.
Likewise, increasing the caster level (and thus increasing the duration of the item) increases the cost thusly:
10(1 + 2 - 1) * 9^2 = 20*81= 1,620 (for a 2nd level caster)
10(1 + 3 - 1) * 9^2 = 30*81= 2,430 (for a 3rd level caster), etc.
The second item is a bit more complex.
Now, what you have here falls under "adding magic to an existing magic item" which is covered in the Artificer's Handbook. Let's break it down:
Right off the bat, adding magic to an existing item incurs a +2 spell slot cost. In addition to that, we pay an ever-increasing cost for having multiple spells in an item. Essentially, what that means is that, if in the above item we adde a second spell effect, say "water walk" for purposes of an example, the second effect would incur an extra +1 spell slot cost for being the second effect in an item. Furthermore, depending on the campaign rules you choose to use, adding a second spell into a magic item might require the "multi-spell" item creation feat.
Now, that explained, adding a second effect to an existing cloak of resistance +1 will incur the +2 cost, and an additional +1 (if there were two prior abilities in the cloak, this cost would be +2, +3 for 3 abilities, etc.). Again, these spell slots are of a level of whatever spell we're adding to this item.
Now, there is a new spell in our book called "Improved Resistance", which acts like the 0 level spell "Resistance" except that the save increases by +1 for every 3 caster levels, and the save can be split up. So, at 3rd level, you can assign +1 to all saves, or +3 to any one save. Let's examine the costs for doing that. Now, I say that this item is complex because there are multiple ways to skin this cat. Your DM would determine which one makes the most sense to him, and go with that approach. The system is flexible, because magic items are varied, and diverse.
Using "improved resistance" as our spell, we're going to give the cloak a permanent "continuous" use effect. Generally speaking, these types of items are expensive because they work constantly. Furthermore, spells with a shorter duration cost more because it's harder to make those effects last a long time in a magic item. "Improved resistance" is a sor/wiz 2 spell, and has a flat duration of 1 minute. A spell of that duration has a cost of 15 spell slots. These are of 2nd level spells. I can tell that that's going to be a pretty expensive approach for such a weak effect, but let's do the math anyway.
10gp(2 + 3 - 1) * 15^2 = 40*225=9,000gp. Ouch! However, that's a +3 to Reflex saves, not the +1 you sought. Because that spell, at a minimum provides a +3 to any one save. Let's try it a different way.
+1 cloaks of resistance are called "bonus items". These items fall into the same category as +1 sword, or +2 gloves of dexterity. Bonus items provide a flat bonus to a single attribute, skill, save, or some other game mechanic.
The cost of bonus items is based on the bonus, obviously. The number of spell slots required is 2 + the bonus. 1 in this case. So that's 3 spell slots. The spell level is equal to the bonus of the item +1. 2 in this case. And the caster level is the spell level * 2, which is 4. Using our values, we come up with our cost for the base item:
10gp(4 + 2 - 1) * 3^2 = 50gp * 9 = 450gp. These values are "creation cost". Market cost is still creation cost * 2. So, a +1 cloak of resistance, according to the Artificer's Handbook, has a market cost of 900gp. The DMG market cost for said item is 1,000gp. So, our formula is slightly cheaper. On some items, it's more.
But we're adding something to an existing item. So, it will incur +2 spell slots for doing that, plus an additional +1 for it being the second effect. Let's examine the cost of adding an additional +1 to all saves to our cloak:
10gp(4 + 2 - 1) * 6^2 = 1,800gp creation cost. That's fairly expensive, since we could just create a +2 cloak of resistance from scratch for only 1,280gp (market cost=2,560gp).
One easy way to do it would be to just divide the creation cost by 3, since you are removing two of the benefits. As a player, I wouldn't have any problem with that. The cost would be 600gp. Another approach would be to incur a restriction on the item. Esentially, restrictions reduce the amount of benefit an item gives. These restrictions reduce the spell slot cost. So, you could reduce the cost by -2 which works the formula out to:
10gp(4 +2 - 1) * 4^2 = 50gp*60= 800gp.
Again, this item is relatively inexpensive, so you can practically just make up some numbers and be fairly close. The system really shines if you try to recreate complex items like a Monk's Belt, or Boots of the North.
Anyway, that's my answer. I took a long time to say it because I had to explain where I was coming from, and why I arrived at the answers I did. The system in the book provides a very fact-based, rules-based approach to item creation that removes all the guesswork from it. However, as you can see, there are multiple ways to create some items, so the GM just has to decide on one and go with it. But, there you go.
Item #1 = 810gp
Item #2 = 600gp or 800gp depending on how you decide to do it. Either approach is valid.
Enjoy.
der_kluge
Adventurer
jaults said:
Jaults, no reviews here yet. The book just came out so it may take some time. Mortality has a review of it, however. Here:
http://www.mortality.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=162
9.6/10
green slime
First Post
Hi there jaults,
My error. In my haste to post a reply, I was looking in the incorrect version of the srd: the original 3.5 complete download was actually still the 3.0 rules. So therefore my reference to expeditious retreat.
Secondly I note that 1 (caster level) * 1 (long strider spell) * 2,000 gp *1,5 = 3,000 gp and not 3,500 gp.
I apologise for my outburst about munchkin gamers, I have to deal with one "in-house", on a weekly basis. It was with thought of this fellow in mind that I posted my comment. It was out of place.
I guess 3.5e and I do not agree on the relative value of tactical movement. I feel that expeditious retreat is one of those spells that need to be treated carefully, when putting its power in an item.
As 3.5 guidelines would have it, continuous slippers of exped retreat would cost a mere (1*1*2,000 gp * 2 (minutes per level lasting all day) = 4,000 gp. Is this reasonable, given 3.5 BoS&S? Which would you rather have:
a) +10 to speed and +5 to Jump skill,
b) +30 to speed and 1,500 gp?
Not too difficult a choice, IMO. Especially as the extra +20 speed affects your jumping distance...to the tune of +12.
This implies that, when compared to similar items already existing in the DMG, that the price may be a tad low for items utilizing expeditious retreat. This could be the reason why there are no any such items any longer in that tome.
No it wouldn't change my position. As a DM, if I let you create it for a certain price, I have to be able to motivate the same price for the other players, whether or not they were actually interested in something like this, or risk getting jumped on for favouritism. Not that it is likely, but I prefer to avoid even providing excuses for insinuations. So, my feeling was, it would enable a player to shore up weak defenses too cheaply. 500 gp is still pretty cheap... but reasonable.
My error. In my haste to post a reply, I was looking in the incorrect version of the srd: the original 3.5 complete download was actually still the 3.0 rules. So therefore my reference to expeditious retreat.
Secondly I note that 1 (caster level) * 1 (long strider spell) * 2,000 gp *1,5 = 3,000 gp and not 3,500 gp.
I apologise for my outburst about munchkin gamers, I have to deal with one "in-house", on a weekly basis. It was with thought of this fellow in mind that I posted my comment. It was out of place.
I guess 3.5e and I do not agree on the relative value of tactical movement. I feel that expeditious retreat is one of those spells that need to be treated carefully, when putting its power in an item.
As 3.5 guidelines would have it, continuous slippers of exped retreat would cost a mere (1*1*2,000 gp * 2 (minutes per level lasting all day) = 4,000 gp. Is this reasonable, given 3.5 BoS&S? Which would you rather have:
a) +10 to speed and +5 to Jump skill,
b) +30 to speed and 1,500 gp?
Not too difficult a choice, IMO. Especially as the extra +20 speed affects your jumping distance...to the tune of +12.
This implies that, when compared to similar items already existing in the DMG, that the price may be a tad low for items utilizing expeditious retreat. This could be the reason why there are no any such items any longer in that tome.
No it wouldn't change my position. As a DM, if I let you create it for a certain price, I have to be able to motivate the same price for the other players, whether or not they were actually interested in something like this, or risk getting jumped on for favouritism. Not that it is likely, but I prefer to avoid even providing excuses for insinuations. So, my feeling was, it would enable a player to shore up weak defenses too cheaply. 500 gp is still pretty cheap... but reasonable.
Last edited:
Similar Threads
