I've been thinking about this as well, and here's what I have so far.
Najo said:
Issue #1: multiclassing rules worked for 3.x ghostwalk, doesn't work for 4.0.
Multiclassing still exists...sort of. A suggestion for a "ghost multiclass," off the top of my head (note: "ghost powers" are any powers with the
Ghost keyword, and are associated with ghost classes explained farther down):
Heroism Made Manifest
You're a hero; you have villains to vanquish and worlds to save. You can't just wait around for someone to resurrect you!
Benefit: When you die and become a ghost, this feat allows you to progress in ghost classes or paths and take feats with the [Ghost] descriptor.
Animus
There's a sizable body of lore surrounding ghosts, and you've been a ghost long enough to have collected the lore (though the "body" part is debatable).
Prerequisites: 2nd level, must have died and become a ghost at least once
Benefit: For each at-will power and class feature power you have, choose a ghost at-will power or feature power of the same level. While you are a ghost, you may use any or all of these ghost powers in place of the powers you gain from your normal class; you select which powers to keep using and which to replace with ghost powers when you die, and may not change the powers chosen until and unless you are raised and die again.
Haunt
Adjusting to your time as a ghost, you display remarkable self-possession--as well as possession of practically anything else within reach.
Prerequisites: 3rd level, must have died and become a ghost at least once
Benefit: For each encounter and utility power you have, choose a ghost encounter or utility power of the same level. While you are a ghost, you may use any or all of these ghost powers in place of the powers you gain from your normal class; you select which powers to keep using and which to replace with ghost powers when you die, and may not change the powers chosen until and unless you are raised and die again.
Revenant
You've moved beyond the simple barrier between life and death...and unlife and undeath...and un-un-undeath, for that matter.
Prerequisites: 4th level, must have died and become a ghost at least twice
Benefit: For each daily and racial power you have, choose a ghost daily power or racial power of the same level. While you are a ghost, you may use any or all of these ghost powers in place of the powers you gain from your normal class; you select which powers to keep using and which to replace with ghost powers when you die, and may not change the powers chosen until and unless you are raised and die again.
Issue #2: can't compare ghost levels with class levels as characters do not level that way anymore.
The Calling
Some ghosts continue to advance in power as ghosts in the same way they did in life. The further they advance, the harder it is to hold onto their tenuous grasp of life, and when their experiences and animating force tilt too far towards the side of ghostly undeath rather than life, they feel a Calling to pass through the Veil into True Death.
Any ghost without one or more of the Spirit, Animus, or Revenant feats does not have a very firm grasp on their ghostly self; after 1d10 years as a ghost, they feel the Calling and pass on. Characters with one or more of those feats have made a conscious effort to explore their nature as a ghost and exercise control over themselves. Characters with one of the above feats whose power repertoire consists of more than 6 ghost powers feel the Calling; characters with two of those feats may have up to 12 ghost powers before they feel the Calling; characters with all three of those feats may have up to 18 ghost powers before feeling the Calling. A character's power repertoire includes all of the powers they know (that is, one for each power from their regular class(es)), not the number they choose to replace while they are a ghost.
Issue #3: making ghost equivlent powers for all of the classes is messy. Seems like ghosts should just level as their class still. This removes the need for a casting and non-casting ghost class. But, this means the whole feel of leveling as a ghost and managing your ghost class along with your living class is not there.
Make an Eidolon class and an Eidoloncer class, plus two other classes with the same naming scheme, to correspond to the Striker, Controller, Leader, and Defender roles. Each has its own set of class powers, all of which are ghost powers (powers having the
Ghost keyword). Then characters would use the 3 ghost multiclass feats from above to double up their powers for ghost powers of the same role (or roles, if they're multiclass characters).
Issue #4: Do ghost feats work while your living in the 3.x ghostwalk? If so, it is kinda strange that a character dies, gains some cool powers as a ghost, then comes back to the living and still has those same powers. But, those choices shouldn't be useless either.
They don't work while you're alive, but I agree we shouldn't make them useless while you're alive. I'd say we make 6 groups of feats, one for each path/ability score, and base their effects on those ability scores while living and those paths while "ghosted." Let's say we associate the Path of the Haunt with Charisma; there might be a feat that lets you give your enemies a penalty on saves against Fear powers equal to your Cha modifier while you're alive, and lets you turn all of your powers into Fear powers while ghosted. That way, you get a benefit either way, though different benefits for different times, and someone focusing on Fear powers in general would always gain a benefit from the feat.
So, we need to decided on the design interests for ghost characters and how they should feel and play. Here are my initial thoughts, please add yours.
* Dying and playing on as a ghost should be exciting and feel a bit dangerous.
No idea; I'll get back to you on that.
* It should have elements that makes it feel like it plays different from your character when they are alive. The ghost should gain and loss certain advantages so players have to make a choice to stay living or dead.
I'd say make ghost have better defenses and movement (they're insubstantial and they can phase, after all) but have certain circumstances where they're easier to hurt and/or there's a chance they could be sent to the True Afterlife accidentally. I'll need to, ahem, flesh that out a bit more.
* moving back and forth between the ghost and living shoul not be easy, but common enough that it plays a roll in the game and explains the 1/4th of city of manifest is ghosts.
Perhaps there's a
restore ghost ritual that turns a ghost into a living being that's cheap and fairly low level, explaining how ghosts could feel comfortable as they are because they know their life is a simple ritual away, and then there's a
bind to Manifest ritual that will cause anyone under its effects to turn into a ghost when they die for a certain period of time. I'll need to flesh that one out too.
* applying the ghost template and turning on its powers and shutting down or weakening some of the living powers should be easy to apply game mechanics during play.
Like I explained above, you'd basically have a set of ghost powers and a set of regular powers, and every time you died and became a ghost you'd decide which slots you wanted to fill with ghost powers and which you wanted to keep regular powers. It's like a broader-reaching version of Channel Divinity (X powers per slot, only 1 slot per round/encounter/day) so shouldn't be to hard to use.
Instead of taking 10 minutes, I think ghosts characters should transition after the encounter they die in ends or 5 minutes if no encounter occuring. This is consistent with 4e design.
Or maybe they turn to ghosts immediately and can see things on the Prime, but they need to take a short rest to get their powers and be able to manifest.
Ghosts should have the ability to move into the ethereal, gain phasing and insubstantial to a limited degree. When they do this, perhaps they lose the ability to use physical equipment unless it is ghost-touch and the longer they spend in this state, the more vulnerable they are to the calling. While ethereal, they lose some of their class powers too? There has got to be a way to do this without losing the game balance. Did ghosts in ghostwalk go ethereal? This shift between the two states should be hard for the ghost to do or on the ghost. Maybe it eats up healing surges or can only be used once per encounter or once per day.
I'd do this:
- Ghosts may go ethereal at will as a minor action.
- While ethereal, ghosts are insubstantial and may phase, though their speed is reduced to half while doing so.
- Every round it spends ethereal, a ghost loses 1 HP, which may only be recovered through an extended rest.
- After being on the Ethereal, it's hard to return to the Prime; to re-manifest, a ghost must spend a healing surge as a standard action.
Ghosts should feel like they retrain when they are raised from the dead. Also, maybe when they are raised they have all of their powers and healing surges expended and have to rest to regain them.
The rest is a good idea; the power retraining feel is again covered by the dual power repertoire thing.
Every time you gain a class level while you are a ghost, you could gain a calling counter or lose a healing surge (ouch) but can take ghost powers and feats in place of normal powers. Once your calling tokens are more than half your class level or your healing surges run out you pass into the true after life. When you are raised from the dead you should be able to untrain any ghost feat or power and swap it for a normal one.
A bit complex, and feels like punishment. I prefer my version above; basically, to avoid the calling, you only need to take the 3 ghost feats to be covered most of the time. Since by level 30 you can have 17 class powers plus a whole bunch of class features (like a ghost cleric who loads up on Channel Divinity powers, or a human ghost wizard with his extra at-will and 4 cantrips), there should be another "avoid the calling" feat which bumps up the max powers limit.
Ghost powers can be based on the paths, while the ghost feats can enhace those powers or basic ghost abilities.
How can ghost powers and feats be useful for a living character but even more useful for a ghost? I think the key to this is how the ghost template works.
See my path suggestion above.
How would you handle these ideas in a single ghost template that quick and easy to apply to a character or monster?
I don't think there should be a "quick and easy" character template; you'd want to keep a lot of the customization of 3e Ghostwalk, and ghosting should be a big part of a character IMO. A monster template, however, should be easy; work up 6 templates (one for each path), pick which one fits a given creature best, and
voila, ghost monster.