Help needed for high level dungeon...

[Heathen72]

Hi everyone,
I need a little help designing a high level (16th?) 'dungeon'.

It's a prison of sorts for a powerful demon and it has laid deep beneath the city for nigh on a thousand years. No one has ever come across it, or even heard of it, because it is psychically warded to make people more 'uncomfortable' the closer they get to it. Only one or two of those who make the sewers their home are even aware of it, and all they say of it is "...man, that place turns my stomach if I even go near it. There is something seriously wrong about the whole area and if I were you I would leave it well alone.

Of course, my players players need to go there (they have need of a special construct, and surprise, surprise, that construct is one of the things that holds this creature in place). The party consists of an extremely versatile wizard, a barbarian paladin (with a strong russian flavour - it works better than it sounds) and a rogue who can run move like the wind (boots of speed and min maxing means he can run rings around his enemies).

I am looking for ways to not only challenge the party, but to challenge each individual character, especially the rogue. He's the reason I created this dungeon - the mage is so versatile now that the rogue is feeling left behind. I want each character to shine. Unfortunately he's joined the campaign at a juncture where it is difficult for me to introduce personal hooks or subplots that could showcase his abilites better.

Of the three: the wizard can teleport, fly, and dimension door so it should easy at least to make him feel like he is pulling his weight, but very hard to challenge him. I think he would like a puzzle that would require hiim to use his magic cleverly.

I can thow a few combats at the paladin/barbarian, but he is hardly just a grunt, and it would be nice if he was more than just useful muscle (and I get bored of all those "use your turn attempt to open the door of evil" things). He has pretty good mythic lore and is of course very charismatic - perhaps a good challenge would require him to win over a trapped spirit from the north, who speaks an old version of his tongue?)

The Rogue is a little trickier, but I really want to give him the chance to strut his stuff, and by more than just getting him to pick a few locks. Part of my problem is that I have never really played a thief, so I don't know how best to draw out their abilities in a way that makes them seem cool. I tend a bit to be "you find a trap, roll the die..." I could throw in a trap where he has to run past the swinging blades, but it's a bit cliche'd and I would prefer something that the wizard can't show him up with by dimension door-ing past it all (and it would be a bit obvious and unsatisfying if I just stick a nul magic zone up everytime I want the thief to have his shot...)

So, any ideas? Anything you have come across in your games, or in a module? I've run a lot of adventures, but not a lot of dungeons, and I would like this to be special, as getting the construct is extremly important. How can I break the routine?

Thanks in advance,
Spunky

 

[paradox42]

For a puzzle, you have one obvious (to me at least) place to start: if this place is set to imprison a powerful demon or other Horrid Thing From Beyond^TM, when the characters retrieve the construct, it sets in motion a chain reaction that will release the prisoner. Then the wizard's puzzle is a very creative one: come up with a replacement component that will allow the party to take and use the construct without releasing the prisoner.

Alternately, you could have the reaction set in motion by the removal of the construct take a while to work its way to the final release of the Thing, in which case whatever adventure the PCs needed the construct for has a built-in time limit unless they don't mind releasing the demon.

As for in-place dungeon features, there are several that leap irresistably to mind: since demons can by their very nature Teleport at will, the dungeon it's imprisoned in should have a permanent Dimension Lock in place in at least the central areas where the prison itself is; walls constructed of Adamantine or other super-expensive material with special properties are also a good way to go. You yourself already came up with the feature that it has a sort of "antipathy" effect on it keeping people away; what if this effect also helps keep the demon inside? In other words, it's a bubble rather than a field- once inside, a creature gets sick if it tries to leave.

For non-D-Locked areas of the dungeon, it makes sense to have some areas be simply inaccessible from others without Fly spells, or even teleportation or ethereal travel; forcing the characters to use those high-level powers they spent so much time acquiring in order to make any progress (as opposed to just shortcutting around a problem) is always a good way to give the players warm fuzzies.

You might also use guardians that don't traditionally see use as villians (or antagonists) in your game: for example, angels. What if the prison dungeon has a series of angelic guardians that are charged with the task of keeping all other creatures out? Then the party has to make a choice between fighting angels (or somehow negotiating a peaceful way past them), and giving up the construct they came to get.

Those are just my immediate thoughts. Hope they're helpful.

 

[Stone Angel]

Not a bad little scenario you have planned. I am also impressed by your willingness to let it be more that just another dungeon.

First ask yourself a couple of questions who created the dungeon, why did they choose here, what is it made out of and so on. Does it have a specific architectual theme.

Now as for challenging each character. As mentioned before the place should be warded against dimensional travel, a demonic lords prison would have some tough guardians.

How about a super tough encounter right out of the gate, one that they really sweat over, not only is a lot of the combat out of the way, you have just put the PC's on edge for the rest of the session. "There is no rest in the jail!"

Paladin/Bbn: Perhaps a few sanctified (BoED) creatures that are normally thought of as evil he has to deal with. He would want to attack them but he is registering no evil from them, a real quandry for him in the alignment axis maybe you might even shake his faith a little.

Rouge: How about a multi room puzzle/trap think about some video games you've played move a block in room 1a and it does something in room 3b

Wizard: A puzzle that requires him to take certain reagents and alter them with magic. The gate requires a stone rose( so he has to find a rose or create one then alter it with magic). Maybe have the puzzle come at him riddle by riddle demanding a little more than normal. It is only revealed to him when he defeats something in melee combat.


Maybe you could make them all have to work together the mage has to keep a door open by expending a spell into it every round, the rouge has to disable an ultra deadly trap or even construct, while the Paladin has to keep something at bay either by combat or letting it chew on him

Hope these help

 

[Mark]

Some stuff from Cooperative Dungeon 01 - Terror and Blasphemy might be helpful.

 

[ashockney]

Excellent scenario!

Here are a couple of suggestions from my recent campaign:
Sudoku grid map - the entire map is uncovered through effective "search" checks, of varying degrees of difficulty. The entire grid area is surrounded by acid fog, waves of exhaustion, curses, and disease. Trap central, basically. Can't tport through or around, you must unlock the grid to gain access to the center (where the golem may be trapped). The sudoku provides a fun puzzle for your group to work together. Your versatile mage will be tested countering and avoiding the nasty effects. The rogue, his speed, and his skills will be critical in quickly uncovering the best information in order to unlock the grid. In my campaign, the map was covered in "magical fogs" that could be destroyed with AoE elemental damage spells and/or Gusts of Wind. The rogues would then rush in to find the hidden compartments that held "holy water", some were filled some were not. Many of the compartments were trapped. Those that were not needed to be filled by new vials of the appropriate amount of "holy water". Once all had the appropriate numbers input, the board was unlocked. In the center, I had a really nasty advanced elder black pudding that used the fog (which was an acid fog around it), and long reach, to address the players.

Air Gauntlet - the party must traverse "up". They faced aerial experts with freedom of movement. Check out the different conditions of "heavy wind". The best tactic was to group and move together in order to defeat each aerial guardian (and retrieve it's ring). If you port straight to the top: a) they will gang up on you, b) you will most likely be blown down from your perch, causing you untold damage. Someone who could "move fast" particularly if this includes climbing, jumping could really be tested in this kind of environment.

Well, I hope that inspires you to come up with some fun challenges for your non-standard dungeon. Good gaming!

 

[Dei]

I'd be very careful before doing anything that will force the paladin to fight good creatures such as angels etc, some players might enjoy the moral quandry this forces while others will just find it unbalancing and unenjoyable. If you want to still have a heavy combat put devils as the guardians and make the demon a victim of the blood war who was imprisioned here after his defeat or something like that.

As for challenging the rogue, hmm, well though rogues are doubtless useful in combat their primary role is as an out of combat skill user, someone who can get a party through dangerous/difficult areas better than anyone else. This is often made to seem like something that's actually not that big of a deal, *roll, roll* "You successfully do X" whereas in fact it's vital to the party. The trick to making a rogue happy is to not blow over his abilities with "You successfully do X"

Instead, when he successfully gets them through a trapped hallway have something like this prepared:

"A tiny change in the lay of the floor tells you there's a pressure-plate before you, it's dimensions becoming clear to you as you kneel to check more carefully. A swift examination tells you that the only way to disarm it is to get to the other side, as you ready yourself to make the leap you see trip wires suspended in mid-air, ready to catch you and so instead, bracing a foot against each wall you ascend towards the cieling, your hands against the walls to steady yourself. You slide upward swiftly and smoothly until finally you're in position and slip a piton into a crack in the stonework, gaining the fingerhold you need. You drop your feet and kick forward, pivoting from a single finger as you tuck and roll between two of the wires, the world spinning around you as you contort your body in mid-air to land delicately balanced on the other side. A glimmer in the air at the edge of perception tells you that you missed one final fail-safe but swiftly you turn, pulling a jamming cog from your belt which you slam into place, etc, etc."

Our DM does it and it turns a "trap-monkey" into a vital and indisposable member of the party. For every trap he'll prepare a description of it being successfully disarmed and will change it depending on how successful the roll is, makes the rogue seem a lot cooler than just "You disarm the trap." It's a bit of extra work for you but it can be worth it. Apply it to everything, such as describing how he cartwheels and flips through the ariel gauntlet and you've got yourself one skill-happy rogue.

As for making him seem worthwhile in combat how about something with high SR and DR but that's quite slow. His sneak attack will be the best way of overcoming DR and he won't have to worry about SR and if it's slow he can happily "run rings around it" Or perhaps something that's really really powerful but blinded in some way so that he has to use his move-silently to engage it effectively.

 

[Heathen72]

Thanks for that, guys.

I do have pretty good idea of the background of the dungeon Stone Angel, but I didn't want to put too many details about it in the initial post for fear of scaring people away. (Short and sweet usually get's more responses, I find.)

This all get's complicated, but not, I hope, overcomplicated - the players have a good understanding of most of the background, and this shouldn't confuse them.

The demon in question was Sezemu, the last and vilest of the of the Shadow Lords. He was ensnared after the Thousand Years of Pain' (in which the Shadow Lords ruled the world) by the first Priests of the new Gods - who rose to free mankind from the Dark Lords' dominion.

The construct in question was one of 5 very powerful guardian statues the Shadow Demons created to surround the the old 'Necropolis'. The Shadow Demons despised the undead and kept them all trapped within a mile radius in the south of the city. When the God's came they killed almost all the demons, as well as the undead, before finally trapping Sezemu to live forever in agony, held by own creation. (It sounds harsh, but he was really rather vile)

In the here and now of the campaign, the city is under attack from a demonic army. All have been forced to retreat into the slums (above where the Necropolis used to be). While escaping an enemy through the sewers the party came across one of the original (now inactive) statues, and knowing of it's origins, decided to 'reprogram' the sattues to defend the area. The idea was a bit 'out there', but it could turn the tide of the war, and I thought 'why not'.

As the next session begins, they have found four of the statues, and know there should be a fifth one somewhere. They even know where it 'should' be...

 

[Heathen72]

Some stuff from Cooperative Dungeon 01 - Terror and Blasphemy might be helpful.

Thanks Mark, I will check it out.

"A tiny change in the lay of the floor tells you there's a pressure-plate before you, it's dimensions becoming clear to you as you kneel to check more carefully. A swift examination tells you that the only way to disarm it is to get to the other side, as you ready yourself to make the leap you see trip wires sus *snip*

That was really helpful, Dei. Thanks. I will respond to your post further, and to everyone's input soon, but I have to run out the door in a minute.

 

[Wycen]

The Crypt of the Iron Heretics, by Goodman Games has some traps that might work well for you. A room filled with buzz saws and blades, with a glyph or symbol of stunning mixed in for the wizard to suppress after it is trigger (you pretty much can't disable symbols, that would be a cool thread in and of itself).

Then there is the skull levers-traps that should give the rogue a good workout.

Throw in a few extra bad guys, low level, so the rogue can hopefully use his sneak attack, and hopefully you'll have a happy party.

 

[Heathen72]

Thanks for the advice guys,

Wycen, I will see if I can track down Crypt of the Iron Heretics, the glyph idea sounds interesting.

Dei, I have already written up some descriptions of some of the traps being disabled, and in the process came up with some nifty snares that the players will have to figure out, so it should be less of a 'roll and see' approach. You mentioned a blind monster; I wonder if I could make that cannot see, but has an amazing sense smell. Is there a spell that removes the sense of smell? It would make an intereting enemy to get past...

Ashockney, your Sudoku idea amuses me. It's very old school dungeon - almost a chessboard puzzle. I have a book of them of varying levels of difficulty. I could get the party to make an int check, and if they roll well, I will give them an easy one, and if they roll badly I will give them a diabolical one. Of course, instead of numbers there would be nine different glyphs to choose from, and only one of the nine would be safe to step on...

Yes, Stone Angel, I think a gutbusting encounter at the start of the dungeon is in order, to let them know that they need to take the traps and everything within it seriously. I think a few doors closing behind them won't hurt either. I might consecrate parts of the dungeon as well - it's one of the rules in my world that you can't port onto holy ground. I like your wizard puzzle too. I'm also thinking of making use of their knowledge of the events just following the thousand years of pain, such as the deity of the priestess who saved the life of the first king, and so on. Little things that will reward them for their study.

Paradox42, your ideas are very helpful. I love your bubble idea for the blanket of obsfucation/antipathy, I like the idea of an angelic creature defending the dungeon, although I think they would be circumvented better by the paladin's diplomacy than his swordplay. I also agree with you about letting the players get past some puzzles easily by just making use of their high level skills and spells.

Thanks very much for your thoughts, guys. I really appreciate them. Everyone feel very free to contribute further ideas, I won't be running the game for another couple of days.