D&D 5E Help on a "Turning the Tide" spell

[Kobold Avenger]

I have an idea of what I see as a high level (6+) spell, with a simple enough mechanic:

"Until the end of your next turn, you and all your allies have advantage on all attacks rolls, saving throws and ability checks, while all your enemies have disadvantage on attack rolls, saving throws and ability checks."

I think it's most similiar to Holy Aura and Foresight, it could be a spell in the divination or abjuration school, and I think it would be a spell for Clerics and Bards at least. It's as I stated above a spell that only lasts 1 round, and wouldn't require concentration since it's so short in duration.

Other things like what level is it, action or area of effect (but I want it to be a large one) and limits are the sort of things I don't have an idea on it just yet.

The spell is literally named "Turning the Tide" and could really turn the tide of a battle despite lasting only 1 round.

 

[aco175]

For a 1 round spell it seems ok. I first thought of only having you and allies have advantage on all that and not bad guys, but the 1-round makes it better for a 5/6th level spell. I might make it a bonus action, but not sure on being a 5th or 6th level spell.

 

[Nefermandias]

Wall of Force sems like a much stronger "turn the tide" spell than this.

 

[Stalker0]

So in terms of effect this is actually much better than foresight because of the ability to pile on. For example, giving your enemies disadvantage on saves and then all the spell casters pile on their nastiest spells. Giving all of your fighters advantage and then they action surge, full attack, etc etc.

That said, obviously the duration is much less than foresight, and effectively requires you to cast this spell in combat, which is a major loss of its own.

The trick is that mass buff/debuff spells just aren't really a thing in 5e, so somewhat hard to compare against. The closest I can think of is a bane + bless hydrid effect. My gut says 6th level as a good starting place, and as a divine spell (I think this kind of effect is more a clerical type of thing, similar to the old prayer spells from past edition).

 

[Quickleaf]

The first thing I'm noticing is that the way you're using "enemies" as a way of targeting (for lack of a better word) is never used in any 5e spell (at least based on the PHB).

For instance, you'll have monsters with traits like Flyby that refer to its "enemies" and you'll have a spell like speak with dead say "...and the corpse is under no compulsion to offer a truthful answer if you are hostile to it or it recognizes you as an enemy." But you almost never see language like "all your enemies" or "enemies" used as a targeting thing – the only exception I can think of is the Light Cleric's Corona of Light feature which very much says "Your enemies in the bright light..." but based on that kind of language in that usage being almost unseen, I would not use Corona of Light alone as your basis for doing so.

I think that's quite deliberate, because "enemy" has no clear definition and is really murky territory. Instead, you'll see language like "any creature hostile to you" (guardian of faith) or "that is hostile to you (Mordenkainen's faithful hound). Because "hostile" is much more clearly defined based on the monster's attitude.

It's an important distinction because if you go with "enemies" then it allow the PCs to utilize your Tides of Chaos as a first strike measure against creatures they've declared as "enemies" but are not even aware of or hostile towards the PCs. That could make for some seriously devastating alpha striking on a surprise round or merely a round of high initiative rolls.

Conversely, stating "hostile creatures" means that hostilities must already be initiated, not necessarily in that combat of course, but generally speaking. This implies that the enemies are actively aware that the PCs are in the area (even if the PCs are hidden), and would do them harm if they came upon or discovered the PCs first. While alpha striking with Tides of Chaos is still a possibility, it does not allow the players to be the ones determining who is and is not a "hostile creature" – that's up to the DM's adjudication.

 

[DeviousQuail]

Something like "Choose any number of creatures that you can see within X feet. You choose whether they recieve advantage or disadvantage on all attack rolls and saving throws until the end/start of your next turn."

If the spell takes an Action I'd probably go with end of your next turn for the expiration. I would go with a 60 foot radius myself. No concentration or saving throw gives it the umph necessary to be a 5th or 6th level spell. It's roughly as good as Scatter and that's a 6th level spell.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

The first thing I'm noticing is that the way you're using "enemies" as a way of targeting (for lack of a better word) is never used in any 5e spell (at least based on the PHB).

Enemies was just shorthand for hostile creatures, and yes it should be done in combat.

Whether or not we also need to be specific about whether you can see the creatures (both friendly and hostile) or just aware of them is another thing, sure invisible creature doesn't get advantage to attack you or your allies (really it's just normal because disadvantage and advantage cancel each other out). But I think just being aware of them is good enough, I'm conceiving it as a fairly high level spell.

 

[Stalker0]

Enemies was just shorthand for hostile creatures, and yes it should be done in combat.

Whether or not we also need to be specific about whether you can see the creatures (both friendly and hostile) or just aware of them is another thing, sure invisible creature doesn't get advantage to attack you or your allies (really it's just normal because disadvantage and advantage cancel each other out). But I think just being aware of them is good enough, I'm conceiving it as a fairly high level spell.

Yeah I am not too worried about the language of enemy, I think that's easy to do. However, your spell probably does need a range. All enemies and allies with X feet. Aka no affecting a kingdom sitting on a mountaintop

 

[Kobold Avenger]

The radius could 50 feet or a 100 feet, something basically covers the whole battlefield.

 

[Quickleaf]

Gotcha. I think your first instinct to compare to Holy Aura is the right approach. Is there a reason you don't want to borrow the language from Holy Aura kind of like what @DeviousQuail suggested, and then just tweak as needed & adjust level?

Turn the Tide
8th-level abjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

Until the end of your next turn, a breeze of fortune for your friends and woe betiding your enemies surrounds you out to a 30-foot-radius. Creatures of your choice in that radius when you cast this spell have advantage on all attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks, and creatures hostile to you in that radius when you cast this spell have disadvantage on attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks until the spell ends.

Balancing the spell
First, we've replaced "Concentration (1 minute)" with "until end of your next turn" – based on that, I might adjust the spell level down by -1. Maybe. It's still quite potent: shorter duration in exchange for not being able to have your Concentration broken.

Second, we've removed the fiend/undead blinding effect from Holy Aura, and I'd say that's worth adjusting the spell level down -1.

We've left the range the same, so no level adjustment there. The lack of a costly material component is something I factor into lower level spells, particularly if the component is expended, but with such a high level spell I'm not sure that makes a meaningful difference to estimating balance.

However, we've added "advantage on attacks & checks" for our friends, definitely a strong +1 spell level. And we've added "disadvantage on saves & checks" for our enemies, also definitely a strong + 1 spell level.

My guess is that it's probably still in the power level of an 8th level spell. If you wanted to bump the range up to 100 feet, I'd consider increasing it to a 9th level spell or tweaking some other aspect of the spell to compensate for that power boost.