Help please. Complaints by players!

[Gallo22]

Hi. I am in a gaming group that plays every monday night, rain or shine. For the most part it's a really good group, serious gamers/roll-players. But every now and then grips start popping up. Here is the latest one.

The group is on the trail of a Druid-Witch (Hag) and she leads them into a trap. The party must cross a slime (regular slime, not a monster) covered rope bridge. Under the bridge is the real threat. I gave the bridge a Reflex DC of 20. Pretty reasonable if you ask me. Well...the most dextrous member of the party tests the bridge and rolls a 19, slipping, but not falling over due to precautions of holding onto a rope. He then goes to the players handbook to tell me that the DC should only be 15, because thats what the "balance" skill says. That 20 is not reasonable. Keep in mind that this is a 9th level rogue. The average party level is 8th. I explain that if I don't make obsticles a challenge that it will not be any fun for that party, that the party should work together to solve the issue. Also they have a wizard with Wings of Flying.

Am I being unreasonable. Should skill based levels stay relatively the same as the party progresses. I know that when the party is in a non-challenging situtation I keep the DC relativily simple to show their skill at whatever the task/check maybe. IE the 9th level thief picking a simple lock, DC 10, click your in...

Please, I'd like to hear some opinions. Thanks.

Gallo22

 

[Raduin_Nimblegrund]

I think "The bridge is incredibly slippery" is a sufficient explaination for the higher DC. Also, I don't know if you allowed him to make use of his ranks in balance (if he had the skill).

I have tendency to argue the rules myself :/ so what we have started doing in our group is saying "Keep rules arguements to yourself until after the game." I never realized how disruptive I was becoming (being right all the time tends to do that to you. ) until the point was brought up. Whenever a topic comes up that can't be immediately resolved, write it down, and turn it in later. This also makes a good way to write down feedback (good or bad).

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

if everything could be handled from the player's, we would have one book and no need for someone to dm games.

more than likely, you injured his pride and he decided to put you on the defensive.

you are running the game, so any dc you set is the correct one.

 

[Arnwyn]

You are being reasonable. The DCs listed in the PHB are only guidelines to help the DM set an appropriate DC - they are not set in stone.

It could easily have been a *very* slippery bridge (which, according to you, it was), thus rating a higher DC. And, you are correct - depending on the situation, it is reasonable for DCs to increase as the PCs advance (though don't do it all the time - it's nice when things are "easy" sometimes, so the players feel like they're accomplishing something as they go up in levels).

(Personally, I would have used a Balance check instead of a Ref save, but that's neither here nor there.)

 

[Mark]

Am I being unreasonable.

No, you are not being unreasonable. Next time it comes up, tell the player to bring it up after the game. If they persist, let them know there are reasons that they, as characters, aren't aware and ask them not to stall the game. Leave some time for after the session for any things they might want to discuss. If you aren't prepared to answer a question when it is asked, tell them you will get back to them with an answer later...and be sure to do so.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Tell the player quite simply that the next time he does that he will be docked experience.

The DM and the DM alone sets the DC for all items in the game.

This is being a rules lawyer bastard at its worst. If he had made the roll then he would not have complained. He only did so because he rolled low.

All of that aside a DC20 reflex check is a rather hefty challenge and one thought may cross the parties mind. How did the druid sucessfully cross the bridge?

 

[Mark]

How did the druid sucessfully cross the bridge?

I'll guess Wild Shape as a flying animal of some kind.

 

[The_Gneech]

Well, lookin' in the old SRD, we see...

7–12 inches wide: 10
2–6 inches wide: 15
Less than 2 inches wide: 20
Uneven Floor: 10
Surface Angled: +5*
Surface Slippery: +5*
*Cumulative; if both apply, use both.

Keeping in mind that these are guidelines, you could just as easily have ruled that since it was a slimey rope bridge, and rope is usually 2" wide or smaller and often at a precarious angle, the DC was 30.

I would suggest that you should have used Balance and then had the Reflex save as a backup in case they fell; generally you should start with skills (else why are they bothering to obtain them?).

But I don't think what you did was unreasonable by any means.

-The Gneech

 

[Gallo22]

Actually I did give him a balance skill check, sorry for the confusion.

Great comments so far , thanks. I'll think i'll do that "discuss at the end of the game" idea.

Thanks.

 

[Ashe]

Or you could take the approach of not telling the player what the DC actually is. Have them make their save and if they don't make, simply say, "You failed (and add any flare beyond that)".

That is what I would do anyway.

But I completely agree you are not being unreasonable, it is your game and your challenges. You could have made it DC 50 (although that would be a bit extreme).