Help Understanding the Ready Action

[Belzbet]

The paragraph says move and open a door it does not say take a 5ft step towards the door. You can think that but nothing in the context points to that except that the paragraph is about 5ft steps in relation to readied actions. The sentence is about moving in general in relation to 5ft steps. Yes of course you cannot take a 2 5ft steps, but the more general point is that you cannot take a 5ft step IF YOU HAVE ALREADY MOVED IN THAT ROUND, a 5ft step is movement. So if you have already taken a 5ft step you cannot take another since you have already moved in that round. So, when you ready your spear, you CAN take a 5ft step while spearing the charging horse unless you HAVE MOVED before readying the action (whether you took a 5ft step or a move action). Also, some ready actions encompass little more than waiting intently for the foe, such as when I ready a spell for when a creatures head can be seen coming up from the ladder in front of me. Where is that action? It is encompasses in the waiting, bracing, etc... then DOING. LEts sayI ready a move action to walk away if I see a creature with an axe. An axe weilding orc comes along and I start walking away. I just used a ready action (standard action) to move (asking where is the standard action is misplaced the advantageous position the READY action gave me was enough to swap a move action for a standard action later in my turn... it is a game mechanics thinking of it as "where is that 3 second slot of time it takes to make that action" is a realism that seems unrealistic.

 

[Belzbet]

I mean I do see where you are coming from But put it this way:it seems by the rules you CAN move 30ft then ready an action to move 30ft but you CANNOT move 30ft then ready an action to attack and move 5ft while attacking. After all you cannot move 30ft then move 30ft as a ready action THEN move ANOTHER 5ft.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hello Water Bob,

I'll go through the SRD text with you:

Ready
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).

OK, readying an action IS a standard action. It costs a standard action; but what does that payment get you?

Readying an Action
You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it.

So for the cost of a standard action, you can ready a standard, move or free action.

Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition.

So the rule is allowing you to now take your readied action. The real question your asking here is does it also cost you that action or is the rule allowing you to do it with no further cost?

The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

Interesting stuff but that key question is still unanswered.

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

So as long as you have not already moved any distance, you can incorporate a 5ft step into your readied action. Interesting but still does not directly answer the core question.

Initiative Consequences of Readying
Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the readied action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed your readied action, you don’t get to take the readied action (though you can ready the same action again). If you take your readied action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round.

That makes sense but still unanswered.

Distracting Spellcasters
You can ready an attack against a spellcaster with the trigger "if she starts casting a spell." If you damage the spellcaster, she may lose the spell she was trying to cast (as determined by her Concentration check result).

Readying to Counterspell
You may ready a counterspell against a spellcaster (often with the trigger "if she starts casting a spell"). In this case, when the spellcaster starts a spell, you get a chance to identify it with a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If you do, and if you can cast that same spell (are able to cast it and have it prepared, if you prepare spells), you can cast the spell as a counterspell and automatically ruin the other spellcaster’s spell. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.

A spellcaster can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, but it doesn’t always work.

Readying a Weapon against a Charge
You can ready certain piercing weapons, setting them to receive charges. A readied weapon of this type deals double damage if you score a hit with it against a charging character.

Again all interesting but the question is still unanswered. At this point, it is still really open to interpretation. The way how our group plays it is that:
- You are taking a penalty by readying an action in that you are not guaranteed (it may not be triggered) to take the action and that you are typically letting one or more combatants in front of your own in terms of initiative and total amount of actions performed during the combat.
- To balance this the ready action lets you do the readied action, no questions asked. You do not have to pay for the action that has been readied.

In terms of logic: You are supposed to be able to ready a standard action. So if I ready an attack (costs a standard action) and then my readied action gets triggered, I do not have a standard action to perform the attack and so effectively, I cannot ready a standard action and perform that standard action if I have to pay for it. What is the point then in saying I can ready a standard action? This then would seem to indicate that while the rules lack clarity, they are indirectly saying that the ready action paid for the triggered action; be the triggered action a free, move or standard action.

And just from a complete angle, lets then look at the 4e rules compendium. While the editions are different, they are also very similar with core parts of the action engine that they share; it is indicative of what was perhaps intended for 3e.

When you ready an action, you prepare to react to a creature’s action or an event. Readying an action is a way of saying, “As soon as x happens, I’ll do y.” For instance, you could say, “As soon as the troll walks out from behind the corner, I’ll use my pinning strike and interrupt its movement” or something like, “If the goblin attacks, I’ll react with a crushing blow.”

READY AN ACTION: STANDARD ACTION

Choose Action to Ready: Choose the specific action you are readying (what attack you plan to use, for example) as well as your intended target. You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a minor action. Whichever action you choose, the act of readying it is a standard action.

Choose Trigger: Choose the action that will trigger your readied action. When that action occurs, you can use your readied action. If the trigger doesn’t occur or you choose to ignore it, you can’t use your readied action, and you take your next turn as normal.

Immediate Reaction: A readied action is an immediate reaction. It takes place after your enemy completes the action that triggers it.

Interrupting an Enemy: If you want to use a readied action to attack before an enemy attacks, you should ready your action in response to the enemy’s movement. That way your attack will be triggered by a portion of the enemy’s move, and you will interrupt it and attack first. If you ready an action to be triggered by an enemy attack, your readied action will occur as a reaction to that attack, so you’ll attack after the enemy.
Note that an enemy might use a power that lets it move and then attack. If you readied an action to attack in response to that enemy’s movement, your readied action interrupts the movement, and you can attack before the enemy does.

Reset Initiative: After you resolve your readied action, move your place in the initiative order to directly before the creature or the event that triggered your readied action.

I have highlighted the core part here which says that the action readied (be it a standard, move or "minor" [minor being akin to 3e swift action]) can be performed immediately upon triggering as an immediate action (although interestingly, the triggerer gets to complete their action which the 3e one interrupts.

And so, I think this is all indicative that you can move and successfully ready an action against a charge all in the one turn without issue (as I indicated on your thread in the general section). The ready action effectively pays for the action readied rather than the combatant having to cough it up.

And if you think about it, it is far more flexible and fun if you play it that way. And yes our group fumbled with the ready action because of the same clear-as-mud wording until I pointed out the logical side of it. Then they agreed with me.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Water Bob]

The paragraph says move and open a door it does not say take a 5ft step towards the door. You can think that but nothing in the context points to that except that the paragraph is about 5ft steps in relation to readied actions.

Since the paragraph is about 5' steps, I think it fairly strong evidence that the sentence is indicating 5' steps.

That paragraph is basically telling us that a character's round that is split because of a ready action still has to abide by all the rules--it consists of two actions (a standard action and a readied action) and only one 5' step is allowed.

I think the paragraph is there because a player might think he can take two 5' steps because we come to the character to act twice--first on his nish and second when his readied action is triggered.

The paragraph and example is there to remind players that, even though the character's round is split in two pieces, it is still only one character's round.

The sentence is about moving in general in relation to 5ft steps. Yes of course you cannot take a 2 5ft steps, but the more general point is that you cannot take a 5ft step IF YOU HAVE ALREADY MOVED IN THAT ROUND, a 5ft step is movement.

Agreed. And, that supports what I just said. If you took a 5' step while you were readying the action, you cannot take another once the ready action is triggered.

I mean I do see where you are coming from But put it this way:it seems by the rules you CAN move 30ft then ready an action to move 30ft....

That goes back to the main question. Here, you are doing three actions, which is illegal.

You move 30'? That's your first action. A Move action.

You ready a Move Action? That's your second action. A standard action.

You move another 30's once triggered? That's your third action. A Readied Move action.

OK, readying an action IS a standard action. It costs a standard action; but what does that payment get you?

Doesn't it make sense that it will cost you some time--say 3 seconds (or a Standard Action)--to put your spear in place and get it ready to receive a charge?

If pulling an arrow from your quiver, nocking it, pulling back on the bow, aiming, and letting the arrow fly is a standard action, done in about 3 seconds, doesn't it stand to reason that it would take about the same amount of time to set your spear for a charge?

When you prepare your bow for a shot, you're bascially "readying" the bow, yes? Letting loose the arrow takes no time. It's the getting the arrow ready to shoot that takes the time, yes?

So, readying a spear for a charge should take about the same amount of time, right?

And, that time is different time from actually using the spear to hit your charging enemy. Right? I mean, attacks are standard actions and take about 3 seconds, right?

Thus readying the spear for a charge and using the spear to attack a charging enemy are two separate actions that, together, take about six seconds, yes?

This is why I think that "readying" anything takes about 3 seconds, and that is separate time from actually using whatever it is that you've readied.

So for the cost of a standard action, you can ready a standard, move or free action.

That's right. Readying the action costs time. It's a standard action. And, that, as I've proven above, is separate time from actually performing the action.

I would argue that you could: Move 30', then ready a free action. Let's say you want to move to the head of the column and then yell, "CHARGE!" as soon as you see the whites of the enemy's eyes.

1. You move 30' to the head of the column. This is a Move Action.

2. You ready the command to charge. This is a Standard Action.

3. When triggered (when you see the whites of their eyes), you yell, "CHARGE!". This is a Free Action and thus does not count towards your total actions for the round.

You've done two actions. It's legal.





In terms of logic: You are supposed to be able to ready a standard action. So if I ready an attack (costs a standard action) and then my readied action gets triggered, I do not have a standard action to perform the attack and so effectively, I cannot ready a standard action and perform that standard action if I have to pay for it.[/quote]

Disagree. A Standard Action can be turned into a Move action, as when you do a double move. What we call Full Round actions are sometimes two Standard Actions, back to back, as when you fight with two weapons--that's two Standard Actions in a round.

I think the Ready Action is akin to the Full Round action in that it lets you conditionally perform two standard actions in a round. You can't attack twice, but you can Ready (a standard actions) and then perform a standard action (as with an attack).

This then would seem to indicate that while the rules lack clarity, they are indirectly saying that the ready action paid for the triggered action; be the triggered action a free, move or standard action.

Actually, I would like for this to be true. I like what you and the others say about the rule more than what I think the rule actually says.

I want to be wrong about this.

And just from a complete angle, lets then look at the 4e rules compendium. While the editions are different....

I don't think we can look too closely about this because....

(although interestingly, the triggerer gets to complete their action which the 3e one interrupts.

....of stuff like this.





I will tell you this, though. The Temple of Elemental Evil PC computer game follows the 3.5 rules quite closely (the game is noted for that), and the game does allow you to move and ready an action.

And if you think about it, it is far more flexible and fun if you play it that way.

As I said above, I want to be wrong. It's just that everything I say is supported in the text.

I would sure love to see an official example of the Ready Action in use (not the sentence in the 5' step paragraph.) I've been to the 3.5 archive on the WotC site, though, and there's nada--that I could find.

 

[Water Bob]

I will tell you this, though. The Temple of Elemental Evil PC computer game follows the 3.5 rules quite closely (the game is noted for that), and the game does allow you to move and ready an action.



(snip)



As I said above, I want to be wrong. .

OK, even though the text still seems to support my position, it seems that everybody else does it differently. That's point #1.

Point #2 is that the computer game above, which is very faithful to the rules, considers the Readying of an action and doing the action the same thing.

Point #3 is that I like the way the rule would work as everybody says--I want to be wrong.

Point #4: I finally found an example from an official source. I started looking at d20 clones. Most state the exact same smoky language as in the PHB. But....the Ever Quest 2 game includes an example...and in that example, the character doing the readied action moves a good distance before he readies his action.

Therefore, I have to be wrong.

Yea!

 

[Empirate]

Look at it this way:

Roll for Initiative!

wait for it...

wait for it...

wait for it...

1. It's your turn! You get to act. In fact, you get a move and a standard action right now, during your turn.

1a) You move. That takes a move action. Alrighty, what now?

1b) Still no idea what you'll do over here, but that Barbarian looks like he might want to charge you. What to do, what to do? Oh, I know! Ready that spear to attack the Barbarian, should he charge you! That takes your standard action.

1c) That's it, you're done for the turn - unless and until that Barbarian charges you, that is.


[Everything according to the rules up to this point? You betcha! On your turn, you just took a move and a standard action. That's as it should be.]


wait for it...

wait for it...

2. It's the Barbarian's turn, i.e. not your turn. The Barbarian charges! What's more, he charges you, because he's a Barbarian, and consequently illiterate and stupid, and he doesn't see you readied your spear for him to charge into.

2a) You can take a standard action or move action in response to the trigger (charging B.). Since you specified you'd attack, that is the standard action you must take now. Isn't it sweet? Because you used the ready action during your turn, you may now take another standard action out of your turn, which is not how it'd normally work. But the ready action makes it so. Nice, go ahead and whack him!

2b) B. gets to attack you, if he still stands after that spear thrust to the guts. This might sting a bit.

2c) You change your initiative to the Barbarian's plus an infinitesimal fraction. Your future turns will take place right before his. In your future turns, you may only take a standard and a move action, so take care not to do more than that - on your turn, that is. But you now understand the power of the ready action, which lets you take another standard action out of your turn.



See how the basic stipulation (may only take move+standard on your turn) and the extra standard or move action granted by the ready action don't exclude each other? This works because of the following phrase:

The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun.

Aside from mechanics, this makes perfect sense, as you'd otherwise waste a standard action to effectively either a) decrease your initiative and be forced into a specific action you had to decide on beforehand (if the triggering condition is met) or b) do nothing (if the triggering condition is not met).


Water Bob, I'm not always a fan of your queries, but this one has been a good one. Hopefully, I could be of help!

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Doesn't it make sense that it will cost you some time--say 3 seconds (or a Standard Action)--to put your spear in place and get it ready to receive a charge?

If pulling an arrow from your quiver, nocking it, pulling back on the bow, aiming, and letting the arrow fly is a standard action, done in about 3 seconds, doesn't it stand to reason that it would take about the same amount of time to set your spear for a charge?

I sense something in your thinking here that is incorrect. You have defined actions as a division of time rather than correctly as a division of effort. A standard action can take six seconds of effort and so can the move action at the same time; simultaneously while also yelling out and getting attacks of opportunity.

When you prepare your bow for a shot, you're bascially "readying" the bow, yes?

No. When you expend a standard actions worth of effort, you get to grab and nock your bow and shoot it at a target with your best effort. If you expend a full actions effort, then you might get up to 5 arrows off or more at progressively worse modifiers. It means devoting your entire attention to firing your bow.

Letting loose the arrow takes no time. It's the getting the arrow ready to shoot that takes the time, yes?

No. It is all in a standard actions worth of effort.

So, readying a spear for a charge should take about the same amount of time, right?

It should take a similar amount of effort not time.

[
And, that time is different time from actually using the spear to hit your charging enemy. Right? I mean, attacks are standard actions and take about 3 seconds, right?

No. I'm starting to see that 2nd edition view of a round and weapon speed coming through here. The primary shift from 2e to 3e is that time becomes more abstract and is replaced with effort. The more skilled a combatant, the less effort it takes them to do certain things and thus the more things they can do within a rounds "approximate" six seconds.

[
Thus readying the spear for a charge and using the spear to attack a charging enemy are two separate actions that, together, take about six seconds, yes?

By my interpretation you could also have moved into position. The way to think about this is that as you are moving your 30ft. into position, your character is not whistling oblivious to what's around them. They are timing their actions with the enemy, getting their position ready and then bracing as they are charged. The standard action of preparing the spear and attacking with it overlaps with moving into position. You get to where you're going, and then say "so... umm... where's the foot of this spear going again? It is all being co-ordinated together. Again it is the effort that is the currency of action, not time.

That's right. Readying the action costs time. It's a standard action. And, that, as I've proven above, is separate time from actually performing the action.

No. It is not.

[I would argue that you could: Move 30', then ready a free action. Let's say you want to move to the head of the column and then yell, "CHARGE!" as soon as you see the whites of the enemy's eyes.

1. You move 30' to the head of the column. This is a Move Action.

2. You ready the command to charge. This is a Standard Action.

3. When triggered (when you see the whites of their eyes), you yell, "CHARGE!". This is a Free Action and thus does not count towards your total actions for the round.

You've done two actions. It's legal.

But then why does it say that you could also prepare a move or standard action if under this most common of circumstances this would be impossible if you follow your interpretation?

In terms of logic: You are supposed to be able to ready a standard action. So if I ready an attack (costs a standard action) and then my readied action gets triggered, I do not have a standard action to perform the attack and so effectively, I cannot ready a standard action and perform that standard action if I have to pay for it.

Disagree. A Standard Action can be turned into a Move action, as when you do a double move. What we call Full Round actions are sometimes two Standard Actions, back to back, as when you fight with two weapons--that's two Standard Actions in a round.

No it is not. You cannot do two standard actions in the same round. You cannot cast two spells. You cannot attack twice at your best modifier. You cannot ready an attack and perform that attack if you interpret the ready action as you are. Can you see that under your interpretation, the ready action is useless and the example they give is wrong? Is that enough to convince you yet?

I think the Ready Action is akin to the Full Round action in that it lets you conditionally perform two standard actions in a round. You can't attack twice, but you can Ready (a standard actions) and then perform a standard action (as with an attack).

Incorrect. It is not a full round action. A full round action does not get you to attack twice at your best modifier. It degrades by -5 for each subsequent attack. That is why it takes a full rounds worth of effort.

[I don't think we can look too closely about this because....
....of stuff like this.

The 4e rules clearly show the intent with clarity of what a readied action can do. It is still valid to show the broad expectation and interpretation.

As I said above, I want to be wrong. It's just that everything I say is supported in the text.

No it is not. If it followed your interpretation, you could not ready an attack and do the attack. Clearly this must show you that you are interpreting the rules incorrectly (and as you say, you want to be incorrect).

[I would sure love to see an official example of the Ready Action in use (not the sentence in the 5' step paragraph.) I've been to the 3.5 archive on the WotC site, though, and there's nada--that I could find.

I had a look at the sage advice columns and likewise came up with nothing.

In short, you ready an action to be used at a latter point that is triggered by a nominated trigger. Since you can ready up to a standard actions worth of effort (be it to use that standard action as a free, move or standard action), then a standard action is what a readied action costs. It is the amount of effort that is invested; it is not the amount of time spent preparing.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Water Bob]

I sense something in your thinking here that is incorrect. You have defined actions as a division of time rather than correctly as a division of effort.

I understand that the actions are flexible with regards to time. But, if you fire your bow and them move 30', you've basically spend 3 seconds firing the bow and 3 seconds hustling to your move point. That's what I was getting at.

When you expend a standard actions worth of effort, you get to grab and nock your bow and shoot it at a target with your best effort. If you expend a full actions effort, then you might get up to 5 arrows off or more at progressively worse modifiers. It means devoting your entire attention to firing your bow.

Before I read this, I started a new thread about Full round actions and firing a bow. Now, you're saying a person can fire 5 arrows in a full round?

I haven't seen that in the rules. Can you point me to the right place?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Before I read this, I started a new thread about Full round actions and firing a bow. Now, you're saying a person can fire 5 arrows in a full round?

I haven't seen that in the rules. Can you point me to the right place?

20th level fighter with +20 BAB has attacks:

+20/+15/+10/+5

With Rapid Shot this becomes

+18/+18/+13/+8/+3

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Readying is an initiative action - initiative is not about time being expended but about the ORDER OF RESOLUTION for actions. The list of actions you may take in a round (standard+move, or instead a full-round action) is what controls the time you spend doing things in a round.

Ready is listed as a standard action simply to control what else you can do on your turn when you ready. Readying obviously has no immediate result and may not even accomplish anything for the character at all if the conditions to trigger the readied action are not met later in the round. The benefit of the special action of readying is to allow you the possibility of taking a standard action not on your own turn but on someone elses turn and to have your action still resolved PRIOR to his. It is STILL about determining the order of resolution of actions, not granting you more OF them.

In the case of an opponent charging you, readying becomes useful because you might not be able to reach a potentially charging opponent on your own turn. Readying generally makes sense only when taking all your actions ON YOUR TURN won't accomplish what you want/need. Readying moves your standard action to someone elses turn (assuming, again, that the trigger conditions are met) when THEIR actions will make YOURS possible which it otherwise wouldn't be.

You seem to be thinking that because readying is classified as a standard action that a character who uses it is being granted TWO standard actions in a round when the readied action occurs, but that isn't really what's happening. It's simply allowing a more complicated arrangement of when your allowed actions are resolved by including a caveat that the one NOT being taken on your turn has conditions that must be met in order to work.