Help Wanted: Adjusting the Paladin's Abilities

[Ormiss]

Hi!

Just for my own amusement, I'm interested in making a variant Paladin class. Basically, I want to strip away all the abilities that I don't want and add something else of equal value. Don't get me wrong, I like the standard Paladin just fine; this is little more than an experiment that I might use for a campaign some time.

What I want is some advice on how much the various abilities are "worth" in relation to possible replacements. My goal is to make a more martial force, especially in terms of defending others. Yes, I know there's a Paladin variant in Complete Warrior, but ignore that for a moment.

Remove these abilities:

• Spell Casting
• Divine Health
• Turn Undead
• Special Mount
• Remove Disease

If it were up to you, what kind of abilities would you replace these with? I'm sorry if this is a rather nebulous question, or if I'm wasting your time. I do not have a good grasp of what abilities are worth in this system.

 

[Diirk]

How about a bonus feat every 2 levels? However for that to be balanced you might need to drop divine grace and smite evil, too.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Well, what is your vision of the paladin? A friend of mine sees them this way. The paladin is almost always the last to draw his sword, and almost always the first to walk up to trouble. He sees them as being tremendously tough, able to take more blows than most, because they tend to tolerate being beat up on while they spend their time trying to convince the opponent to back down.

In his mind, the paladin is basically never the aggressor. He doesn't start fights, but he has the tendency to be the last one standing, and tends to be the one dragging the others in for justice.

So, he gives all paladins Toughness for free at first level, and gives them d12 hit dice.

However, like I said, he sees the paladin as able to be the one to finish the fights that he doesn't start. So, they have to be good in combat. So, he gives them weapon focus and weapon specialization with a select weapon.

Sure, this crowds into the fighter's turf, but it builds a very particular kind of class, and one that fits his view of the paladin very well.

So, again, what's your vision of the paladin? That will help the rest of us in giving advice as to what abilities to replace those you want to do away with.

Dave

 

[Ormiss]

First of all, thanks for the replies--I know that my details were sparse.

Basically, my vision of this Paladin is a warrior that, though not necessarily as physically tough as a fighter, has superb "resistance" to the things that she needs to combat. I'm hesitant to mention that I'm pondering spell resistance, because in my opinion that is a highly powerful thing, but that's the sort of image I'm going for. "I cannot be denied."

I don't want to go the way of the fighter, but rather give the Paladin innate/spell-like abilities that, in a sense, make her less equipment-dependent. "Power from within." I like the idea of the Paladin's sword being a holy weapon just because she's holding it, rather than the Paladin having a specific holy avenger. (They do have that in Complete Warrior, though.)

 

[Diirk]

If you want to give spell resistance, just make it 5+character level, like the monk, and probably at a similar level. In practical terms this means equal level casters' spells will fail 25% against the paladin... so not really that big an impact in the average game.

Except when the party's wizard casts haste on you and it fails... love those double edged swords

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

*cracks knuckles* Here we go.

I'd suggest replacing the spellcasting with a Fighter or Divine bonus feat every level the Paladin would gain a new level of spells-- if I remember correctly, that's 4, 8, 11, and 16. Change the 11 to 12, and throw one in at 20 for giggles.

I'd actually recommend keeping Divine Health. A lot of the things Paladins need to fight are either disease-ridden or have disease-causing special attacks.

I wouldn't give them anything specific for Turn Undead, but I'd keep the Turn Undead attempts for use with the Divine Feats. Those Divine Feats include things which make the Paladin (and his allies) more resistant to horrible evil icky things, as well as boost his capacity to vanquish those same horrible evil icky things.

Finally, replace the Mount and the Remove Disease with the ability to enchant his personal weapon, like the 3.0 Samurai or the 3.5 Kensai, and then make any weapon the Paladin's holding Good-aligned. Of course, Paladins are probably going to start with +1 and work their way up to Holy.

 

[Ormiss]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I like the kensai "signature weapon" ability quite a bit. I'm not sure how to interpret "work their way up to Holy," but would it reasonable to use the same values as for the Kensai but spread it out so that they increase according to the following table:

2nd level - +1
4th level - +2
6th level - +3
...
20th level - +10​

Obviously any enchantments that aren't viable for a Paladin (anarchic, unholy, etc) would be out the door.

 

[RisnDevil]

The level weapon idea from the OA Samurai is cool, but I think it is a bit unfair to make the Paladin give up exp to increase the weapons ability which has been part of the class since square one. And the Kensai's ability is too limited. I would say just up the gp cost of each enhancement, make it take some special ritual to actually up it, and have it work for any weapon he weilds...or maybe just any sword.

 

[the Jester]

One thing I'd suggest is giving them an ability that allows them to penetrate DR like a good weapon, then a lawful weapon, then maybe cold iron as well (to help combat demons, the paladin's fundamental opposite). Model it off of the monk's ki strike ability.

Just a thought.