Help with a feline player race

[MrFilthyIke]

I love how many people are always trying to make kzinti without knowing what kzinti are...

This?

 

[Estlor]

When playing with ability score adjustments, there are two rules to avoid a +1 LA:


1. Always make sure the adjustments are even numbered (+2, +4, +6, etc). Odd number adjustments can easily be maximized or minimized in impact by a clever player. An even number forces them to go down (or up) one level of bonus or penalty to their die role.

2. "Mental" ability scores are worth half a "Physical" ability score. I.E. a +2 in Strength can be countered by a -2 in Constitution or Dexterity or a -2 in two of Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma or a -4 in one of them. However, continuing the example, a +2 in Wisdom cannot be countered by a -1 in a physical ability score. WotC's rationale is that physical ability scores come into play more often statistically than mental ability scores and, therefore, have a greater impact on the character when adjusted.

So, in the example of the Dragonstar cat race, they have a -4 on both Int and Cha because they have a +2 on two physical ability scores. Likewise, the Half-Orc has a -2 on two mental ability scores to offset its +2 in Strength.

Another thing to consider is the side-effect of giving a bonus in a mental ability score. A race with a +2 to it's Int score will, on average, be slightly "better" as a wizard at 1st level than a race without that bonus if only ability scores are taken into account. Likewise, a -2 to Int will make a race slightly worse. In most cases, a race's ability score adjustments play to their strengths either directly or in a complimentary manner. A halfling gets a bonus to Dex, which helps out on many skills that rogues rely on, while their penalty to Str is slightly less important to a rogue. That's a direct connection. The dwarf gets a bonus to their Con, which gives them more hit points and a better fortitude save and a penalty to their Cha, an ability that does nothing to a Fighter. That's a complimentary connection.

One note about the dwaf: it's the only race that "breaks" WotC's rules. Its +2 to Con, an ability that is good for EVERY class is only half offset by its -2 to Cha, an ability that only matters if you're laying on hands, turning undead, or casting spells as a bard or sorcerer. By WotC's own rules, the dwarf has an unbalanced ability score adjustment and, by default, should be a LA +1 race. When you add on top of it the host of abilities that put them head and shoulders above elves, gnomes, and halflings, they are definitely an overpowered race, but not a game-breaking one.

In some cases, it's a judgement call. A hobgoblin is a LA +1 race because of it's unbalanced ability score adjustment, but it's brief host of other racial abilities make it a weak LA +1 race. On the other hand, a goliath or half-giant gains most of the bonuses of a large creature and none of its penalties, making them strong LA +1 races.

 

[Klaus]

Is this (the Kathos) something like what you're looking for? If yes, I can post stats:

http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Wallpapers/tiger_knight_wp.jpg

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Is this (the Kathos) something like what you're looking for? If yes, I can post stats:

http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Wallpapers/tiger_knight_wp.jpg

Heck, post 'em just because they look cool.

 

[LeifVignirsson]

I love how many people are always trying to make kzinti without knowing what kzinti are...

I LOVE me some kzinti, I haven't been successful in tracking down any hard stats for them but I am sure that is what they are looking for here... *curious to see if anyone posts Kzinti stats*

 

[Klaus]

Heck, post 'em just because they look cool.

Here they be:

Kathos

Kathos roam from settlement to settlement, seeking adventure, excitement and the thrill of the chase. They are agile, quick and independent, filled with curiosity and wanderlust.

Personality: Kathos are curious to a fault. While they can lie for most of the day enjoying the simple pleasures of life, they still have the heart of a predator. Nothing excites them more than the thrill of a chase, and nothing angers tham more than an attempt to break their spirits.

Physical Description: Kathos have been described as “cat-people”, and that is truly the best way to sum them up. They are slim and athletic, standing around 6 feet tall and wheighing around 160 pounds. Males and females have nearly the same height, although females are somewhat lighter. Their bodies are covered with short fur, ranging from beige to yellow-gray, with little to no markings. Ther eyes are yellow, green or blue, with vertical pupils. Their irises are so large that they take up nearly all of the eye. They dress in practical leather clothing that allows them to move freely. Their trousers have a small hole for their 2-foot-long tails. Footwear is rare, usually little more than bandages. Kathos reach adulthood at about 14 years of age and can live to be 70 years old.

Relations: Kathos tend to judge an individual for his merits, not his race. Other races have difficulty to read a kathos’ racial expressions, and find their unblinking stare somewhat unnerving. The only true enemies of the kathos are the gnolls, whose larger numbers often force a kathos family to move on.

Alignment: Unsurprisingly, kathos tend more towards chaos than law, but are equally capable of good and evil.

Kathos Lands: Kathos tend to live in open plains and temperate praeiries, as part of extended families. These families can settle in a region for months at a time, or they can live as nomads for years without settling. Familial units rarely have more than twenty kathos and their dire tiger mounts.

Kathos encountered in human lands are those who ineviatbly succumb to their wanderlust and take to adventuring (an occupation far more common among kathos than other races).

Religion: Kathos refrain from organized religion, instead seeking solace within themselves and the lines of ancestors that preceeded them. Those who wish to follow a more mystical approach tend to become monks, even if for a short while, which allows them to regain some of the physical might that evolution claimed, through discipline and practice.

Language: Kathos speak a sharp tongue with many rolling sounds and hisses. Kathian is hard on the throat and is rarely written. When it is, it uses the Common alphabet. Kathos tend to whisper a lot, being used to their own kind’s keen ears.

Names: Kathos names are usually simple, one-word affairs. Kathos adventuring in human lands often take on a nickname like “Moonclaw”, “Keen-Eye” or “Stalker”.
Kathos Male Names: Kor, Rwerk, Shan.
Kathos Female names: Mey, Tsann, Seela.

Adventurers: The percentage of adventurers among kathos is far greater than that found among other humanoid races. Kathos resting between adventures tend to be lazy and content. But it won’t be long before the hunt beckons them again and they ride out into the night.

Kathos Racial Traits:

- +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence: Kathos are agile and balanced, but their lighter frames make them less sturdy than humans. They have very keen senses, but trust instinct more than reason.

- Medium: As Medium creatures, kathos have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

- Kathos base land speed is 30 feet.

- Low-light Vision: A Kathos can see twice as far as a human in poor lighting conditions.

- Natural Weapons: An unarmed kathos can attack with 2 claws, each dealing 1d3 damage. Although they have sharp teeth, a kathos’ bite is too narrow to do much damage. A kathos monk can choose to do bludgeoning or slashing damage with his unarmed attacks, but when doing slashing damage it can't be nonlethal damage.

- +2 racial bonus to Balance, Move Silently and Listen checks. Kathos are predators at heart.

- +2 racial bonus to Handle Animal, Ride and wild empathy checks when dealing with felines. Kathos can empathize with felines better than most humanoid races.

- Bonus feat: Blind-Fight. Their keen hearing and sensitive whiskers help kathos fight unseen foes.

- Sonic Vulnerability: Kathos suffer a –2 penalty to saves against sonic and sound-based attacks.

- Light Vulnerability: Kathos suffer a -2 penalty to saves against light effects that may cause dazzling or blinsing effects (such as the "flare" spell).

- Automatic Languages: Common, Kathian. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnoll, Giant, Orc, Sylvan. Kathos are familiar with the languages of their neighboors.

Favored Class: Monk. A multiclass kathos’ monk class does not count when determining wether he takes an experience penalty for multiclassing. The monk tradition is a way for kathos to connect to their inner grace and strength, if they can overcome their chaotic nature.

 

[Jurble]

wow those Kathos are fantastic! In the picture they are very similar to the race im looking for (i guess my original intent was similar but a larger/stronger version i guess)

I wonder if its possible to give them a str bonus but balancing that maybe against CHA sounds like a headache. Also while wis bonus fits for the race (since they are low int but average/higher wis type creatures) the bonus is not necessary if it helps to add a small str bonus of say +2

For the best comparison i can do atm to what im looking for (without scanning my han solo trilogy book heres a pic i found)

http://images.google.com.au/images?.../members/~hansolo/bilder/lexikon/togorian.jpg

or

http://www.nonsolomartelli.net/Images2/G S im Alieni/togorian.gif

Not taking the same violent racial traits, more a hunter tribal people, of similar level of danger to fighting a wookie (taller than a human, not as strong as a wookie but faster/more agile). I think these Kathos are about as close as ive come so far to finding something that fits!

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

One thing you have to remember when trying to bring SWd20 to D&D is that SW doesn't have any of that level adjustment mentioned before. Honestly, you could just take the Togorian stats as they are and tack on an appropriate level adjustment.

I have stats for a race of feline shapechangers from my own Star Wars game, but I'm not sure they'd be appropriate for D&D. Especially considering they have a serious vulnerability to metal and cold, and would probably have a very high ECL.

 

[Jurble]

Thought id post this to see if someone with more experience than me could tell me if im making a big mistake. This species seems the closest to what i want to find for this character one of my players is creating so i was thinking of adding a few changes to the racial traits posted below (Which i beleive made it an ECL 0 species) in order to make it an ECL+1

Kathos Racial Traits:

- +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence: Kathos are agile and balanced, but their lighter frames make them less sturdy than humans. They have very keen senses, but trust instinct more than reason.

- Medium: As Medium creatures, kathos have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

- Kathos base land speed is 30 feet.

- Low-light Vision: A Kathos can see twice as far as a human in poor lighting conditions.

- Natural Weapons: An unarmed kathos can attack with 2 claws, each dealing 1d3 damage. Although they have sharp teeth, a kathos’ bite is too narrow to do much damage. A kathos monk can choose to do bludgeoning or slashing damage with his unarmed attacks, but when doing slashing damage it can't be nonlethal damage.

- +2 racial bonus to Balance, Move Silently and Listen checks. Kathos are predators at heart.

- +2 racial bonus to Handle Animal, Ride and wild empathy checks when dealing with felines. Kathos can empathize with felines better than most humanoid races.

- Bonus feat: Blind-Fight. Their keen hearing and sensitive whiskers help kathos fight unseen foes.

- Sonic Vulnerability: Kathos suffer a –2 penalty to saves against sonic and sound-based attacks.

- Light Vulnerability: Kathos suffer a -2 penalty to saves against light effects that may cause dazzling or blinsing effects (such as the "flare" spell).

- Automatic Languages: Common, Kathian. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnoll, Giant, Orc, Sylvan. Kathos are familiar with the languages of their neighboors.

Favored Class: Monk. A multiclass kathos’ monk class does not count when determining wether he takes an experience penalty for multiclassing. The monk tradition is a way for kathos to connect to their inner grace and strength, if they can overcome their chaotic nature.

To make it ECL +1 I was going to add +2 Str and make it a large creature (although i would like to keep its reach at 5ft if possible not sure how that works)

If this player has to sacrifice a class level to get this (at lvl 1 gains racial traits only, no class) is he going to be severely disadvantaged?

Also the player is probably going to go pure monk (so end up as 19monk, 1cat-person-name-undecided) do you think he might end up overpowered ifi do it this way?

Lastly (sorry for the heap of questions) as the DM anyone think this could end up problematic for balancing/encounter creation etc?

Thanks for all the help much appreciated!

Marc

 

[Felon]

1. Always make sure the adjustments are even numbered (+2, +4, +6, etc). Odd number adjustments can easily be maximized or minimized in impact by a clever player. An even number forces them to go down (or up) one level of bonus or penalty to their die role.

There's definitely solid reasoning behind this "rule"...

2. "Mental" ability scores are worth half a "Physical" ability score. I.E. a +2 in Strength can be countered by a -2 in Constitution or Dexterity or a -2 in two of Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma or a -4 in one of them. However, continuing the example, a +2 in Wisdom cannot be countered by a -1 in a physical ability score. WotC's rationale is that physical ability scores come into play more often statistically than mental ability scores and, therefore, have a greater impact on the character when adjusted.
So, in the example of the Dragonstar cat race, they have a -4 on both Int and Cha because they have a +2 on two physical ability scores. Likewise, the Half-Orc has a -2 on two mental ability scores to offset its +2 in Strength.

...but this one's a bit contrived, or at least a significant misinterpretation of what's laid out in the DMG's section on designing races. Tripling the half-orc's Int and Cha penalties would not justify tripling the Strength bonus, even-steven. A half-orc's +2 strength bonus is not balanced simply because it has twice as many penalties to mental abilities. It's also weighed against the fact that it has almost no other features.

To say that the designers' rationale is that physical ability scores come into play more often statistically than mental ability scores is somewhat fallacious. They do not apply such a broad generalization to all characters, with good reason. For some classes, one or two ability scores are paramount, and they are not necessarily segregated by whether or not they are physical or mental. Obviously, a wizard's Intelligence comes into play more often than Strength or Charisma. It is extremely unlikely we're going to see any official +0 LA races with +4 Int, -2 Str, unless the race has some other major "unwizardly" limitation outside of ability score bonuses. The same would go for a +2 Int, -2 Cha race.

Indeed, you may have noticed new races that have few if any ability score modfications, like the raptorians and illumians in Races of the Wild and Races of Destiny, or the neraph from Planar Handbook, respectively. Ability score bonuses are way too big a focal point for most folks who design homebrew races. For exactly that reason, Dragon magazine's submission guidelines actually instruct writers to not submit a new race with any ability score modifications included in the write-up, but rather to leave that to the editing staff to decide.

To keep the LA to 0, it might be best to consider if this feline race really needs a flat Str bonus? What does strength provide that could be focused on instead? How about a bonus to Climb and Jump checks? Perhaps a bonus to grapple checks, or a bonus to attack or damage with a specific attack or under some specific condition? Perhaps a temporary bonus akin to barbarian rage?