help with CR of a trap and was it fair?

[tomBitonti]

Question ... did the party have resources to rescue the rogue?

A 50 drop would be 5d6, minus some for falling into water. Jump or tumble could reduce the damage further, so lets say 3d6. 13-18 points per round is 4d6 (a little less) or 5d6 (a little high).

If the party reacts quick and throws down a rope, the rogue can be expected to take at least one and maybe two or three rounds of damage. That puts the expected damage on an initial failure at 7d6 to 15d6. 15d6 is about 52 points of damage, probably too much for the rogue, and almost definitely too much for any weaker class, like a mage or sorcerer. Even if one of the party members has fly, that's still one or two rounds in the pit, since its one round to fly down and grab (two move actions), and that's if fly is active. Add a round or two if Fly is not ready, or on a scroll, and maybe another round if the player with Fly is somehow distracted.

If the party has any current damage (not entirely unlikely), then the trap becomes quite lethal.

Filling a wide pit with strong acid (4d6 or 5d6 per round) seems too high. Since the pit is large, I'd make the acid weak, so 1d6 or 2d4 per round seems about right.

Thx!

TomB

 

[delericho]

in our game we came across a trap our DM made, we presume. it was 15ftx10ft wide had a 50ft drop the bottom was covered in acid up to knee hight and it had a reset time of 5rounds. our 7th lvl rouge died in it due to us not being able to reopen the trap on time as the rouge melted to death in the acid.

was this a fair trap for a group of 4 7th lvl players? and what would the CR of that trap of bein?

How many XP did your DM award you for surviving the trap (that party as a whole, that is; not the poor rogue ).

Because, per the DMG, some 5% of encounters are supposed to be "overwhelming" (at a CR much higher than the party level). It's therefore entirely reasonable for the DM to throw a high-CR trap at a lower-level party, provided he gives you the XP appropriate to such a difficult challenge.

And, indeed, traps are intended to be lethal - given that they're generally encountered on their own, they generally should be sitting at the top end of the 'appropriate' CR range.

(As for the actual CR of the trap... it's hard to tell without more information. However, it doesn't actually look too high - it's just a 50ft pit trap coupled with acid, with an added complication in the reset mechanism. CR 7 or 8 feels about right anyway.)

 

[Dozen]

I also think this was a fair and square encounter. CR notwithstanding, anything the PCs can do themselves at the given level is accessible to NPCs, and all you need for the trap question is a simple mechanism, a pick, a shovel and a little alchemist's DIY lab. In the worst case, if the soil/stone can't handle the acid, there may be some stone- or metalcraft involved, but still, it's kindergarten stuff.

 

[Jester David]

the acid in the pit was doing around 13-18 points of damage a round.
dosent the area the pit covers drive up its CR and with the damage of the acid and the fall in one round and it being liquid not drive it up more?
im working it out at at least CR12.
CR7 for damage and +5 for liquid, would i be way off in doing this?

13-18 sounds like 4d6 (or 3d6) with good rolls.
The size or the pit shouldn't really change the CR much. Falling into liquid is neutral. More water would lower the damage. But there's no drowning risk so there's no CR bump.
7d6 for the fall and 4d6/round for acid is nasty, but maybe CR10 at the most. So hard for the party, but not overpowered.

 

[Libramarian]

Only you can decide if it felt fair or not, not the CR system. Fairness is not determined by mathematical calculation. The trap was fair if it fit into the context of the adventure and you had an opportunity to avoid it.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

in our game we came across a trap our DM made, we presume. it was 15ftx10ft wide had a 50ft drop the bottom was covered in acid up to knee hight and it had a reset time of 5rounds. our 7th lvl rouge died in it due to us not being able to reopen the trap on time as the rouge melted to death in the acid.

was this a fair trap for a group of 4 7th lvl players? and what would the CR of that trap of bein?

It doesn't matter. Traps are not meant to be fair. They are meant to kill, capture, or hinder.

 

[whorobbedme]

If our rogue had of had a few potions he would of had a better chance. i still think the trap should of had the +5 for liquid as the drowning hazzard is still there...
When i say fair JRRNeiklot i refer to not putting CR12 traps in against 1 Lvl players that might be a bit extreme but ya get what i mean

 

[the Jester]

If our rogue had of had a few potions he would of had a better chance. i still think the trap should of had the +5 for liquid as the drowning hazzard is still there...

No way. The pc would never have drowned, he'd dissolve first. That +5 is intended for traps with a real danger of drowning someone, not any trap that uses any liquid for any purpose.

 

[Dozen]

When i say fair JRRNeiklot i refer to not putting CR12 traps in against 1 Lvl players that might be a bit extreme but ya get what i mean

As long as the world doesn't automagically change for the PCs wherever they go, it's more the party's fault for walking into a dungeon that dangerous. What, did you expect a warning sign at the entrance saying "for 4-6 adventurers of 9-14th level?" Or do you suppose the DM's job involves making sure you can beat what you meet? When he intents you to meet them and throws them into your face, sometimes rather literally, then yes. Otherwise, no. By that logic, the DM should allow you to kill a deity at first level if you happen to walk into one. The world is not about being fair as in 'just', it's fair as in 'legilimate'. The DM is not going to weaken the Emperor's Elite Guards so you can kill them when you decided, or make a powerful, hungry monster go out of your way because you don't pose a threat to it yet. Unless the DM is railroading the party(thank Arneson if he isn't), all he can do for you is throwing hints and the occassional 'Are you sure?'. Beyond that, whatever overCR'd encounter you walk into is on your soul.

No way. The pc would never have drowned, he'd dissolve first. That +5 is intended for traps with a real danger of drowning someone, not any trap that uses any liquid for any purpose.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

Rule 0.
The DM is always right.

He rolled poorly and failed, exploring dungeons is deadly, and failure can get you killed.
The dice represent those variables.

It wasn't unfair, it was actually and easy save (crowbar to the doors, strength check to open it up, more rope, etc. etc.)

Also, tell the DM nice touch with the acid.
Liked that very much.